Applying for my licence

[njc110381]

For sub 100 yard rabbits and muntjac I'd ask for a .22lr and a .223. The .22lr will handle rabbits very well and .223 could be used for head shots on longer range ones as well as fox and muntjac.

It's worth asking yourself how many rifles you'd like to end up with? You may find yourself wanting to shoot larger deer in the future and if that's the case that could change things. You can only shoot muntjac and Chinese water deer with the .223, but there's nothing stopping you from shooting all species with a .243 or above. Then there's boar - same but minimum .270 unless your force is really helpful!

If you don't mind having three rifles then great, but if that will be an issue then reconsider the .223 accordingly. You will find though that in many areas, anything over a .22 centrefire can start to get tricky for use on vermin.

Do you know if your force issues the "any other lawful quarry" condition? If it does then that makes things a little more simple as specific species don't need to be listed for you to lawfully shoot them. You could then take boar with less than a .270, as that is a guideline rather than a law. That being the case, a 6.5x55 would do all you need.

 

[stubear]

Seams to be a lot of advice regarding which caliber. This appears to be a first application? You will probably be given .22lr, maybe.17HMR. I doubt you'll get a deer round first time round.

Why not? He has a permission with some deer on it, so there's your good reason. He already has an SGC so presumably his security has passed muster. Then all he has to do is not be a prohibited person. And ask nicely and play it straight.

Agree with PM - If you have good reason for a deer caliber then you should be able to get one.

I got .308 for deer stalking granted on my first application and that was all I put in for.

 

[kenbro]

No one except Hereford has mentioned the bouncing bullets you can easily get with a .22RF.
That alone would convince me not to have one, and go instead for the .17 HMR.
And if you can't already, learn to head shoot rabbits.
Ken.

 

[Harry Brown]

Agree with PM - If you have good reason for a deer caliber then you should be able to get one.

I got .308 for deer stalking granted on my first application and that was all I put in for.

Yeah right! and I'll bet that was for paid and hand held "take the shot now" stalking? it's not quite the same as a novice asking for a first time C/F to carry around their local urban spinney or carpark. C'mon give the FEO's some due discretion to assess the person and land they have available realistically and safely

 

[DAVIDAIKEN]

Yeah right! and I'll bet that was for paid and hand held "take the shot now" stalking? it's not quite the same as a novice asking for a first time C/F to carry around their local urban spinney or carpark. C'mon give the FEO's some due discretion to assess the person and land they have available realistically and safely

I was posting from personal experience not 'listening to boll**ks' as someone suggested. I had land for .223 but was given .22lr even though also I ask for .17HMR. After joining a club and gaining experience I was granted .17HMR & .223 (open) and .308 paid stalking and range. If I were your FEO and you owned half of Scotland I'd want some sort of experience before giving a cf you could keep at home.

 

[topscots1]

I was give 22rf 17 hmr 243 and 308 on my first application for unaccompanied stalking and vermin control along with range usage. If you don't ask you don't get. In general this preoccupation with calibre is a little daft. If you are suitable to hold one firearm you should be able to hold 100.

 

[jimbo1984]

I was posting from personal experience not 'listening to boll**ks' as someone suggested. I had land for .223 but was given .22lr even though also I ask for .17HMR. After joining a club and gaining experience I was granted .17HMR & .223 (open) and .308 paid stalking and range. If I were your FEO and you owned half of Scotland I'd want some sort of experience before giving a cf you could keep at home.

Funny I got my centre fires on my first application along with my rimfire ............. Maybe that says more about you and your attitude sausage

 

[Miki]

.17HMR for Bunnies, headshots out to 125yds no problem, avoid the body shot as the round turns their inside to mush. I've not had any problems with ammunition over the last 2 years and it seems readily available (although expensive compared to .22 rim). You'll need a good moderator for the HMR. The 17gn rounds are effected by the wind which helps teach you (IMO). Then a .22-250 for the larger species, you can shoot rabbit with a 55gn .22-250 but they tend to be spread all over the backstop. The .22-250 540/55gn round is excellent for Fox and Muty/Roe and when zero's @ 200yds gives an excellent +/- 1.5" POI out to 240yds. Privi (PPU) ammunition is available pretty freely and isn't overly expensive, you will need something with more punch for larger game, Boar, Red Deer etc.

 

[stubear]

Yeah right! and I'll bet that was for paid and hand held "take the shot now" stalking? it's not quite the same as a novice asking for a first time C/F to carry around their local urban spinney or carpark. C'mon give the FEO's some due discretion to assess the person and land they have available realistically and safely

My circumstances at the time of application were not made clear in my earlier post, but since you asked so nicely...

I'd done some paid stalking and had some permission for solo stalking at the time when I applied, plus my DSC1 and a good few years of target rifle shooting under my belt. I also had a couple of references from well known and experienced stalkers.

I was granted .308, closed ticket, no mentoring condition and the usual ammo/AOLQ.

In fact the first deer I shot with my own rifle I was flying solo when I was out with Malc after CWD. I did a post about it if you want to have a read.

So yes, I had some experience when I applied as well as some references saying I was competent with firearms but in any case if you have good reason for asking for a .308 then you'd think he request would be considered.

There's no point in applying for a rifle to shoot boar in Europe with and the FEO says "nope sorry, .243 only on first application." And then you can't use it as it's below the minimum energy requirements.

But yes I agree with you they will always consider your experience, the land you'll be shooting on and with who etc. In my case I assume they were happy with what I put down hence granted what I requested.

 

[Harry Brown]

My circumstances at the time of application were not made clear in my earlier post, but since you asked so nicely...

I'd done some paid stalking and had some permission for solo stalking at the time when I applied, plus my DSC1 and a good few years of target rifle shooting under my belt. I also had a couple of references from well known and experienced stalkers.

I was granted .308, closed ticket, no mentoring condition and the usual ammo/AOLQ.

In fact the first deer I shot with my own rifle I was flying solo when I was out with Malc after CWD. I did a post about it if you want to have a read.

So yes, I had some experience when I applied as well as some references saying I was competent with firearms but in any case if you have good reason for asking for a .308 then you'd think he request would be considered.

There's no point in applying for a rifle to shoot boar in Europe with and the FEO says "nope sorry, .243 only on first application." And then you can't use it as it's below the minimum energy requirements.

But yes I agree with you they will always consider your experience, the land you'll be shooting on and with who etc. In my case I assume they were happy with what I put down hence granted what I requested.

Sorry if came over abrupt but I read that sort of thing often on here. In your last quoted post above the reasons become more explained as why it was granted which your initial post didn't, and came across a bit cocky to me at least. It's not you personally but I tire of hearing in gunshops/forums etc how it's "Your right to have any calibre " At the end of the day the police (FEOs) have to consider public safety above all other factors and when people post they want a C/F we don't know what experience they have or don't have, that's the job of their FLO dept to sort out. I was granted a C/F for a tiny wood surrounded by nearby main roads, but only after much discussion and written proof of previous C/F experience sent to the FLO dept, and quite rightly so. What we may consider good reason isn't necessarily high from a police public safety position, so by saying if there are deer on the land there's no problem it doesn't automatically follow the FEO will agree. I don't know the OPs own position but the FEO will and they have their reasons for permitting or opposing. I hope he gets what he applies for but I Wouldnt like to lay money either way without the full facts.

 

[stubear]

Sorry if came over abrupt but I read that sort of thing often on here. In your last quoted post above the reasons become more explained as why it was granted which your initial post didn't, and came across a bit cocky to me at least. It's not you personally but I tire of hearing in gunshops/forums etc how it's "Your right to have any calibre " At the end of the day the police (FEOs) have to consider public safety above all other factors and when people post they want a C/F we don't know what experience they have or don't have, that's the job of their FLO dept to sort out. I was granted a C/F for a tiny wood surrounded by nearby main roads, but only after much discussion and written proof of previous C/F experience sent to the FLO dept, and quite rightly so. What we may consider good reason isn't necessarily high from a police public safety position, so by saying if there are deer on the land there's no problem it doesn't automatically follow the FEO will agree. I don't know the OPs own position but the FEO will and they have their reasons for permitting or opposing. I hope he gets what he applies for but I Wouldnt like to lay money either way without the full facts.

No problem mate, I do see what you're saying as well

And yes I agree with you - they're not going to grant you a .30-06 to shoot boar if the location you wish to shoot them is your mates 10 acre paddock with foot paths all over the place, a school one side and a nunnery on the other!

I guess I was just thinking in terms of my own experience with application which, as you correctly say, could be completely different to the situation in which the OP is applying.

 

[DAVIDAIKEN]

Funny I got my centre fires on my first application along with my rimfire ............. Maybe that says more about you and your attitude sausage

Who are you to question my attitude! What a strange comment! My attitude is fine, don't question my attitude again and keep you strange comments to yourself. Mine was a statement as to how I was treated by my FEO and shooting related, not an atack on anyone's attitude, SAUSAGE!

 

[jimbo1984]

Who are you to question my attitude! What a strange comment! My attitude is fine, don't question my attitude again and keep you strange comments to yourself. Mine was a statement as to how I was treated by my FEO and shooting related, not an atack on anyone's attitude, SAUSAGE!

Don't question your attitude again ! My my aren't we a little touchy .......... Maybe best you stuck to airguns if your that easily upset , aye your attitude seems fine alright lol

 

[bacardigold]

 

[CarlW]

No one except Hereford has mentioned the bouncing bullets you can easily get with a .22RF.
That alone would convince me not to have one, and go instead for the .17 HMR.
And if you can't already, learn to head shoot rabbits.
Ken.

I agree. .22rf is the scariest rifle available. I shoot .308, .375 and .500NE but am too frightened to use a .22rf anywhere on my own farm. That zinging noise as the bullet goes bouncing off into God-knows-where gives me the willies.

 

[Bladerunner]

If it helps OP I literally on Friday morning had my FEO visit, I have a DSC1 and have already been mentored for three years. I have a permission of very rural 360 arces. I have kept a deer stalking diary as evidence of mentoring. My permission has previously been cleared for deer stalking. There is a timber crop that suffers from Roe and rabbit and cereal crops damaged by Red. I have 9 ducks and 12 chickens that the local foxes are keen on.

I put in for a 17HMR and a 6.5x55 and got approved, I have a shotgun cabinet for my shotguns, I have a rifle cabinet for my yet to be bought rifles and a third shotgun cabinet that will be used as a dedicated ammo safe. All secured with rawl bolts.

I had a signed land use form ready for FEO. Which will also double as my written permission, and an os map photocopied with the boundaries of permission and marked no shot zones.

Totally agree with others above if you do the prep work correctly the FEO visit is just a rubber stamp exercise.

 

[countrryboy]

This is 1 of those questions that always comes up and despite lots of folk being passionate about there own combo's there really is no right or wrong answer.

To be honest times have changed a lot in recent years too, esp in some regions where u may be restricted (wrongly) wether allowed cf's or mentoring, so not really fair to compare how many rifles where handed out in the past compared to nowadays.

As for ur choices.
Most gun shops will have a room full off 2nd hand 22lr's prob well under 100 quid including scope and mod which will do all u need and last for years, esp if ur not fussy on looks. Cheap as chips to run good for practicing with, yes the bullets can be bouncy but 15-20 yrs ago its all y really had as rim fires and everyone seemed to cope fine
With ur 17mr or 22 wmr u probably want a better rifle as accuracy is more important (and barrels can wear with the higher velocity) but u should still pick up a complete outfit for 2-300.

When u get up to cf even a 2nd hand rig u will be talking 1000 upwards by time got scope etc.
Any of the 22cf (222, 223 22-250) are great rounds to shoot for fox and small deer even roe in Scotland but if u don't want too many rifles u might be better stepping up to 243 or larger.
In Scotland a 22cf works well as a combo with a larger 30 cal type rifle, but in eng I can see the downside it not being roe legal.

 

[ChesterP]

It doesn't really matter what anyone else gets on their certs first time round as it has no bearing on the OP. As we are all perfectly well aware, each application has to be assessed on its own merit and that will include the applicant's experience, suitability of land, permission for shooting that calibre and for taking specified species and demonstrating need for calibre. If one or more of those conditions is not met, then no certificate for that calibre is likely to be granted.

That may mean that the OP demonstrates that the land is suitable for the use of a .308, they they have demonstrated good experience and competence (it's up to the applicant to provide the evidence, not to ask why its being asked for) and then the application might be successful first time. I was granted .223 and .308 first time out, and a few years down the line, have had no problems with variations to add to those calibres. My advice is to walk the land with the FEO, demonstrating your knowledge of things as you go round of public rights of way, boundaries, safe shooting backstops and likely areas where it is perfectly safe to take a shot. It helps if you can demonstrate that there is deer etc that the landowner wants controlling and that you have his signed permission to do so. This all builds a picture of responsibility, and after all, they have to ensure that their decision won't impair public safety.

As for 22LR vs 17hmr, anyone who thinks that hmr doesn't ricochet should think again, because it does. I stopped shooting one because over the stony ground I shot, I frequently experienced "zingers" from HMR. Providing that you are aware of where things like buildings, property, footpaths, highways are etc, and you take care to ensure shots are calculated to be taken into safe backstops, even with 22LR, you shouldn't get any excessive risk. It says a lot that after many years, my 22LR is still in the cabinet but the HMR went years ago. Split necks, squib rounds, inconsistent ammo and accuracy that was no-where near as good as claimed, plus the tiny bullet being blown all around at the slightest whiff or wind put me off the round all together. I shot a few thousand rounds before making my mind up.

As for calibre, no one here can really advise you because none of us know your land or your suitability, but all things being equal, the sensible thing (as you have definite reason) would be for a 22LR or HMR (I wouldn't though...) and a .223. The 22LR is popular for a reason and with subs, can be almost silent in use, one of the main attractions. For now, they'd both suit your stated need perfectly well and if and when you have the need for larger animal control, and not just taking one deer every few years, then perhaps think about an application for a larger calibre. Up to you really as only you can provide the evidence to convince your licencing team that you have good reason and are safe to use whatever you apply for.

 

[User00025]

Let us not forget that you can get zingers with anything Rf or Cf. Had more than a couple with 22/250 and that after exiting a fox as well.