Are there really Big Cats wild in the UK?

[jimmy milnes]

If it was a cougar why didn't the six packs of foxhounds or two packs of staghounds ever find or tree it?

Maybe cause there just as good as my local pack an couldn't sand on a beach

 

[VSS]

No.
Any escapees are generally dealt with pretty quickly, and the odd ones that might remain at large for slightly longer aren't sufficient to create a sustainable wild-living population.
Let's face it, in this day and age even a bird can't die on a remote grouse moor without at least a dozen people stumbling across its body and splashing it all over social media. Thetefore the chances of something as large as a big cat existing understurbed in our countryside is zero.
Almost everyone carries a phone with a camera on these days, capable of taking good quality hi res images. People are often sharing photos of their wildlife sightings, all nice crisp in-focus shots. Funny that every so-called "big cat" pic seems to be blurred and out of focus! Also funny that there's no road casualties, no trail cam footage, no thermal footage. Funny too that they're almost always black - the most unlikely colour.

On second thoughts, perhaps it's the big cats that are killing all these hen harriers. Sounds feasible that a mythical beast would be responsible for fake deaths.

 

[Tom D]

I have my doubts, I'm sure there's no breeding population. The odd escapee is a possibility, I saw a wallaby on the side of the road once, I was close to Whipsnade Zoo at the time though..

 

[levigsp]

I have no doubt that Big cats or exotic cats have been released as in the 1960 I owned a Servil that was released. When the Dangerous Animals act came out in the 70s, the owners of petshops etc were contacted and told to inform people who had dangerous animals that the had to be licenced or handed in. The shop that I got various strange animals from informed me and I handed the Cat over to them! as did other people.
Some years later the owner informed me that rather than pay officials to collect etc, he simply let these animals go in the peak district, where they were dealt with by keepers.

 

[landkeeper]

i was always a doubter until my brother who was an avid hill walker and wildlife photographer rang me one day , he had been at a local childrens playground in perthshire with his kids when he watched a very large black panther (his words) stalk along one edge of the fenced area it was he said at least 6 ft from nose to tip of tail, he reported it and from memory there had been other who did so too

 

[FrenchieBoy]

I have no doubt that Big cats or exotic cats have been released as in the 1960 I owned a Servil that was released. When the Dangerous Animals act came out in the 70s, the owners of petshops etc were contacted and told to inform people who had dangerous animals that the had to be licenced or handed in. The shop that I got various strange animals from informed me and I handed the Cat over to them! as did other people.
Some years later the owner informed me that rather than pay officials to collect etc, he simply let these animals go in the peak district, where they were dealt with by keepers.

In fairness and all honesty I can see the possibility of someone spotting one within a "reasonable time" of it being released after the wild animal act came in - Maybe that's where all of these "Big Cat Sighting" originated from - Quite possible I guess!
However, how long might those that were kept as pets and were released have survived, would they have had enough "natural hunting skills" to catch enough food to survive for any length of time? And what might their lifespan have been? (I don't know the answers to these questions, maybe someone does) - And surely for them to be seen about nowadays they would have to have met with others of their own species to mate and breed, and the chances of that happening I think would be pretty remote!
However I am prepared to stay "open minded" if some conclusive photos, video footage or "trail cam proof" could come to light!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Do I believe that there is an actual "population" of big cats in the UK? No.

I DO believe that SOME reports are genuine and correct, and I'd roughly break it down like this: 75% are reports from people who are well-intentioned, but genuinely mistaken. They're not liars, but still aren't right. 24% are by people who are bullshitters, fantasists or attention-seekers. The remaining 1% are people that have actually seen a big cat.

I recall several years ago a report on local news in Yorkshire that police had found, in a barn, several caged lynx. They'd somehow been illegally obtained and they believed that the intention was to release them. Look at how easy it is for the criminal fraternity to get hold of drugs, firearms, etc. and I don't think for a second that someone with enough money couldn't buy more or less anything they wanted, including live exotic animals. Think "Tiger King".

Another interesting thing to bear in mind is confirmation bias. Somebody who already believes in something, is more likely to attribute "evidence" to confirming their belief. For example, I remember in the village where I used to live, if you walked down the footpath near to a particular farm, the world's largest and friendliest yellow labrador would squeeze under the barbed wire fence and leap off the top of a 6-foot bank to greet you. He left BIG paw prints in the mud after his jump, and tufts of fur on the barbed wire.
If I told somebody who was open to suggestion that I'd seen a large, sandy-coloured big cat nearby, and then showed them the prints and the fur, that could be all the evidence they needed.

I recall another time when I braked so hard I almost threw the Mrs through the windscreen on our way home from the farm shop, because I'd seen a lynx in a field of stubble. Of course, I always have binoculars in the truck, and they confirmed that it was actually just a very big, very scruffy farm cat!

Finally, I really don't buy the common "dogs were scared to carry on" line. The idea that dogs are for some reason inherently afraid of the smell of big cats is just daft. There are places in the world where hounds are still used for tracking big cats.

 

[levigsp]

In fairness and all honesty I can see the possibility of someone spotting one within a "reasonable time" of it being released after the wild animal act came in - Maybe that's where all of these "Big Cat Sighting" originated from - Quite possible I guess!
However, how long might those that were kept as pets and were released have survived, would they have had enough "natural hunting skills" to catch enough food to survive for any length of time? And what might their lifespan have been? (I don't know the answers to these questions, maybe someone does) - And surely for them to be seen about nowadays they would have to have met with others of their own species to mate and breed, and the chances of that happening I think would be pretty remote!
However I am prepared to stay "open minded" if some conclusive photos, video footage or "trail cam proof" could come to light!

The reason I said the were dealt with by keepers. I stand by my first post on the subject anyone who believes the live and breed anywhere in the uk, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[levigsp]

Do I believe that there is an actual "population" of big cats in the UK? No.

I DO believe that SOME reports are genuine and correct, and I'd roughly break it down like this: 75% are reports from people who are well-intentioned, but genuinely mistaken. They're not liars, but still aren't right. 24% are by people who are bullshitters, fantasists or attention-seekers. The remaining 1% are people that have actually seen a big cat.

I recall several years ago a report on local news in Yorkshire that police had found, in a barn, several caged lynx. They'd somehow been illegally obtained and they believed that the intention was to release them. Look at how easy it is for the criminal fraternity to get hold of drugs, firearms, etc. and I don't think for a second that someone with enough money couldn't buy more or less anything they wanted, including live exotic animals. Think "Tiger King".

Another interesting thing to bear in mind is confirmation bias. Somebody who already believes in something, is more likely to attribute "evidence" to confirming their belief. For example, I remember in the village where I used to live, if you walked down the footpath near to a particular farm, the world's largest and friendliest yellow labrador would squeeze under the barbed wire fence and leap off the top of a 6-foot bank to greet you. He left BIG paw prints in the mud after his jump, and tufts of fur on the barbed wire.
If I told somebody who was open to suggestion that I'd seen a large, sandy-coloured big cat nearby, and then showed them the prints and the fur, that could be all the evidence they needed.

I recall another time when I braked so hard I almost threw the Mrs through the windscreen on our way home from the farm shop, because I'd seen a lynx in a field of stubble. Of course, I always have binoculars in the truck, and they confirmed that it was actually just a very big, very scruffy farm cat!

Finally, I really don't buy the common "dogs were scared to carry on" line. The idea that dogs are for some reason inherently afraid of the smell of big cats is just daft. There are places in the world where hounds are still used for tracking big cats.

Good post just to add hunting big cats with dogs is a great form of hunting, I have partaken in USA, Europe, Asia and Africa.

 

[bogtrotter]

How many have seen a true Scottish wildcat? How many have seen a Kellas? cat for hundreds of years a large
black cat has featured in Scottish mythology it was only about forty years ago that it was proven to be no
myth, given the name Kellas after the Morayshire village Kellas where the first confirmed specimen was procured
Genetic testing seems to indicate they are a cros between a true wildcat and a domestic or feral cat usually
black but not always often a white patch on the chest but again not always.
Some years ago one evening. I left a Belgian client overlooking a rough pasture while I actively stalked with
his friend, I instructed him that I would collect him at dusk.
When I returned I found a very excited client who maintained he had wounded a panther but had been afraid to
follow it in the fading light a quick search did find some blood but.by this time it was much to dark.

I was somewhat afraid that he had shot the dog of a local farmer a small collie terrier cross but he adamant that he had
Shot a big cat, I marked the spot where I had found the blood and vowed to return the next day.
I spent a restless night convinced he had shot the farmers dog and decided I would return to the spot at first light
I dropped the two clients off at spots where they could sit and possible get a shot at a Buck and this time with firm
Instructions Roe Bucks and nothing but Roe Bucks.
In daylight the trail was not difficult to follow at first but the blood got less and less across the pasture through a rough
hedge across a B class road and over a wall of about five feet in height I could clearly see the blood on the wall
What kind of dog could scale a wall that high, not the small cross I suspected it was.
I now had some doubts about what sort of animal I was tracking about fifty yards further on at the foot of a Gorse bush?
I found the biggest cat I had ever seen black or what at first appeared black the undercoat was more a dark brown and
up close you could see stripes as in a wildcat and with a small white patch on the chest it was bigger than a true
wildcat bigger than a fox longer in the leg but very thin ,I'm 5'9" or was when I was young think I'm shrinking a bit with
age but when I held it by the back legs at shoulder height the front feet were on the ground so at least four foot in length
not counting the tail.
Not what we normally mean when we talk about big cats but I have never seen another cat anything like it .

 

[Woodsmoke]

I found the biggest cat I had ever seen black or what at first appeared black the undercoat was more a dark brown and
up close you could see stripes as in a wildcat and with a small white patch on the chest it was bigger than a true
wildcat bigger than a fox longer in the leg but very thin ,I'm 5'9" or was when I was young think I'm shrinking a bit with
age but when I held it by the back legs at shoulder height the front feet were on the ground so at least four foot in length
not counting the tail.

I wonder if what I saw was something similar then? The memory has faded a bit with time (this was in the early 90's) but the size is definitely in the ballpark. I don't remember any stripes of patches, but it was in shadow and facing half-awa from me so it could easily have had markings that I just didn't see.

It was definitely a panther though. Or a tiger. No doubt about it

 

[paul k]

Is she black?


If it was a cougar why didn't the six packs of foxhounds or two packs of staghounds ever find or tree it?

I couldn't speculate, we don't know that they didn't "find" it but it's worth noting that only one pack of foxhounds and one of staghounds would hunt any given area (given the proximity to the LACS Baronscourt reserve staghounds might not even hunt the area) and possibly the huntsman would be able to stop hounds before they all got on the line of anything that was not a quarry, long before any potential treeing.

 

[Grannysmith]

I have spent years in africa tracking and shooting the medium sized cats ie carcal and leopard and one thing they do is hang their kill in a tree, now panthers etc as our media keep designating big cat sightings as in the uk are just leopards and in 40 yrs of pro stalking i have never seen a cat kill in a tree!

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Yes Jim the guy who used to work for me was stalking at Kellas and shot one of the big cats and handed it over to the people doing the investigation. And Andy's house is in the woods about 10 miles from this area and he took a photo of a big cat as it strolled past his house.To Authenticate the size of the cat he put his friend with dog ( Collie cross lab) on the same spot to give an idea how big it was. Then I was out with a client over the back of Dufftown. We were coming to the last light when I looked over a bank. I immediately said to the client , look a black fox. We both looked and I suddenly realised it was actually a cat sitting on the forest track. It was no more than 80 yds underneath us. Then it got up and stood on the track. We both had an intake of breath. Like your cat this thing was massive. Long in the leg, and it's nose was at one side of the track and the tail was at the other side of the track. This would make it at least 6 feet in length. It quietly sauntered off into the trees and eventually we spoke to each other. We were back to the same spot a couple of nights later and this time a fox was sitting in the same spot. It gave us a real idea on how big the cat had actually been. The farmer there kept telling me he was seeing"big" cats , but you know farmers. Well now I believe him. He says there are 3 different ones that he has seen. And for those who will say why has no-one else seen them. This wood backs onto a very large FC thick forest and this guys farm is away in the back of beyond at a dead end. Why aren't they seen more. Well I was stalking that wood for 20 years and only once saw the cat. I am really pleased that I had someone with me . If not some of you would still be saying I had imagined it. Just like those that say there is no Covid 19!!! J

 

[User00025]

I couldn't speculate, we don't know that they didn't "find" it but it's worth noting that only one pack of foxhounds and one of staghounds would hunt any given area (given the proximity to the LACS Baronscourt reserve staghounds might not even hunt the area) and possibly the huntsman would be able to stop hounds before they all got on the line of anything that was not a quarry, long before any potential treeing.

Believe me if a big cat was found by hounds, half of Somerset and Devon would know within the hour. Yes a Huntsman could stop hounds but his whip or other people on point would see it leave cover, if it didn't tree. There were rumours of a big cat when I lived in the Border Hills, supposedly seen by some.
Hounds came not long after, not a registered pack but a killing pack. Along with them came 10 or so Lurcher men and we had a good few Keepers and Shepherds out with guns and rifles scattered all over the hills. Over 4 days hounds drew from Moffat to Peebles and we killed a good many foxes and the odd feral cat but no sign of a big one.

 

[Heym SR20]

I would n't be at all surprised if there were still big cats at large. Many were released when you gat to get licences to keep them in a domestic setting. Things like Leopards are very secretive and in Africa and India can live quite happily unnoticed even within the cities. I am sure that a few will have bred and there may be a small and scattered residual population - we still do have quite large areas of wild areas with little disturbance from hounds etc. Leopards and the smaller cats

As regards hounds - hound packs are trained to follow particular scents and ignore all others - so fox hounds for example will not be diverted when they cross a Roebuck track. In other words, if they did come across a big cat trail would they actually follow it.

 

[bogtrotter]

I wonder if what I saw was something similar then? The memory has faded a bit with time (this was in the early 90's) but the size is definitely in the ballpark. I don't remember any stripes of patches, but it was in shadow and facing half-awa from me so it could easily have had markings that I just didn't see.

It was definitely a panther though. Or a tiger. No doubt about it

The stripes could only be seen close up they would not have been seen from a distance and while it looked black it
was only the long hairs that were black guard hairs I think they are called the true colour over all colour was more a tawny brown but would certainly look black from even a short distance.

 

[bogtrotter]

As for true big cats yes there have been some two Pumas trapped in Scotland some years ago one went to Kincraig
wildlife park where it lived out its life not in the least perturbed by humans had almost certainly been kept in captivity
and escaped or been released.
not sure what became of the other one.
Lynx multiple sightings and a few have been shot, of all the cats Lynx would be the most like!y to survive if released
especially in parts of Scotland habitat is similar to Norway and Sweden where they are native in fact they were native
here at one time.
panthers highly unlikely they are extremely rare in any case so why would there ee be so many running wild here.
However I'm sure some of the big cat sightings are of Scottish tigers (wildcats) Kellas cats or even just big feral cats
(Which can be big) I'm certain you could be fooled if you have never seen any of these and are used to fireside moggy's

 

[landkeeper]

I doubt very much that any feline of any type escaped or released would starve the instinct in any of them is there

 

[hunter243]

just big feral cats
(Which can be big) I'm certain you could be fooled if you have never seen any of these and are used to fireside moggy's

I second that. Some ferals are huge compared to moggies, they often develop a thicker coat too which adds to the confusion.