Article - The Basics of Night Vision

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
Some good stuff here, but not only Pulsar and Yukon supply digital NV and thermal kit
Personally, I think the PARD digital NV kit is much better value for money than the Pulsar/Yukon stuff, but Pulsar thermals are pretty much the standard go to product for most people.

Cheers

Bruce
 

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
As I'm sure most people know, Thomas Jacks are the exclusive importers of Pulsar and Yukon in the UK and all the retailers like Cluny Country Store have to buy their stock from TJs.
What you might not know is that if someone organises a night vision/thermal event where prospective buyers can see some of the kit available on the wider market, then TJs will either not appear if PARD equipment is also being demonstrated or will "encourage" the organiser of the event to "disinvite" whoever is going to be showing the PARD products
It seems that TJs are afraid that a side by side comparison with some of the PARD products may not reflect well on the equivalent Pulsar/Yukon products.
In fact I've heard it said that TJs think that PARD is "unfair" competition :rofl:
If you compare the current Pulsar and Yukon digital day/night scopes against the equivalent PARD day/night scope then on price/performace the PARD is a clear winner.
Pulsar clearly have the thermal market pretty much sown up at the moment - FLIR. GUIDE and ATN all have issues which make Pulsar the best bet, and PARD don't have a product in that market segment, but then a year ago PARD didn't have a day/night scope either and look where they are now
Full disclosure - I'm not a trader and I don't sell NV or thermal kit, but I do have some PARD kit bought with my own money and I do think their products are excellent value for money.
I have recently been given a PARD NV008LRF digital day/night scope with integrated rangefinder to test and review, and as part of that process I did some research on the specifications of the various digital day/night scopes on the market at the moment.
Those scopes included the Pulsar N450, Yukon Sightline N470 (basically the same as the Pulsar but without wifi and video recorder) and the ATN X Sight 4kPro 3-14
While each scope has it's pros and cons, only the NV008LRF has a built in rangefinder and an integrated laser IR illuminator and all for less than the price of any of the others

Cheers

Bruce
 

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
I wrote this quite a while ago it might be an interesting read.

what you have to remember that first and foremost this is a stalking forum and all though other sports are heavily discussed what is usually missed by ALL those selling night vision in the UK is that although other countries allow the use of digital and thermal equipment to shoot deer with day or night. England and Wales have no issue you using night vision and Thermal on deer during the day but only at night under license , but , in Scotland nightvision and thermal rifle scopes are illegal full stop on deer. You can spot with thermal but not allowed to shoot.

I think it is a little unfair that Cluny's post has been hijacked by yet another Pard argument , The Pard 007 has freezing problems and only works good with lowend glass usually the type of glass that general stalkers do not, Yess the 008 is good for the money and the IR is good but there have been faults showing in some case, Now do not get me wrong all Nightvision and thermal products have their issue.

Anyways have a look at this Nightvision and Thermal is it all that that it is cracked up to be? | Field Sports Scotland it will help with much of what I have said.

I know some of the retailers of Pard "Don't respect my opinion" but frankly I don't care I have been using NV products for 15 years and I have tested most that are on the market and my opinion is not the be all and end all but I understand how it works and I have been involved in building NV products.
I will say it time and time again you need more than just NV andThermal is your tool box and frankly nothing beats clear glass in daytime.
 

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
The title of the thread is "The basics of night vision" (NOT - the basics of PULSAR night vision) and the OP proceeded to clearly push the products from a single manufacturer.
If you want to learn more about night vision, you need to learn about more than a single manufacturers products.

This forum has members from all over the world, and the fact that neither thermal or night vision scopes can legally be used to shoot deer in Scotland, whilst important for people shooting in Scotland, is of absolutely no relevance anywhere else.

I'm sure the forum was set up primarily for deer stalking but the admins are clearly happy for discussion to take place on other shooting related activities and I suspect that many members of the forum are not deer stalkers.

If the forum was purely for discussions on deer stalking I fear it would be a far less lively place than it currently is.

I'm going to have to say this but your statement " low end glass, usually the type of glass that general stalkers do not use" - is glass snobbery of the highest order"

Are you saying that it's not possible, or any less enjoyable or skillfull to shoot a deer unless you have a Swaro, Zeiss or S&B scope on your rifle?

At the present time good glass still wins in good daylight, but for several years now, digital night vision has been far better than any glass at first and last light - just the times that people pay big bucks for when they buy "top end"glass.

Cheers

Bruce
 
Bruce, yes. We are a trade seller attempting to push the brands we sell. We are not trying to masquerade that in any way.

But also it is an innocent article on the basics of night vision and, yes, we based examples off of the ONLY two brands that we sell in relation to that topic. Of course more could be said including more options/brands (as always in any article about anything) but they are intentionally limited for simple, quick reading for a beginner.

If you do not like our articles, please do not feel that you have to read them.

We will not be commenting any more on the subject.

Thank you
 

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
The title of the thread is "The basics of night vision" (NOT - the basics of PULSAR night vision) and the OP proceeded to clearly push the products from a single manufacturer.
If you want to learn more about night vision, you need to learn about more than a single manufacturers products.

This forum has members from all over the world, and the fact that neither thermal or night vision scopes can legally be used to shoot deer in Scotland, whilst important for people shooting in Scotland, is of absolutely no relevance anywhere else.

I'm sure the forum was set up primarily for deer stalking but the admins are clearly happy for discussion to take place on other shooting related activities and I suspect that many members of the forum are not deer stalkers.

If the forum was purely for discussions on deer stalking I fear it would be a far less lively place than it currently is.

I'm going to have to say this but your statement " low end glass, usually the type of glass that general stalkers do not use" - is glass snobbery of the highest order"

Are you saying that it's not possible, or any less enjoyable or skillfull to shoot a deer unless you have a Swaro, Zeiss or S&B scope on your rifle?

At the present time good glass still wins in good daylight, but for several years now, digital night vision has been far better than any glass at first and last light - just the times that people pay big bucks for when they buy "top end"glass.

Cheers

Bruce
That is not at all what I am saying , what I am saying is that rear addons prefer glasss that is not heavily coated and usually even the cheaper brands such as Hawke have ranges that that will not suit rear mounted addons, this is a fact that has been discussed and agreed with as there is no way round it ,

I get you have taken my comment on "high end" as being snobbish when it not as "high end" does not necessarily mean expensive, many of the fixed power stalking scopes like Meopta and Schmidt that are well under the £500 mark wont work well with rear addon kits. It is not about brand snobbery in fact if you read any of the stuff I have put up I am all for the cheaper stuff if it works and gets the job done, I just know what works and does not work. if someone came to me and said they have say a Nightsite Eagle and they want to use it with their Z6i then I would have to say that that was the wrong scope even though it was nearly £2k new. If the same person said they want to put it on a Hawke Vantage or even a Sidewinder then I would say go ahead .

Many people have been totally taken by the Pards and I for one don't disagree with them but the main reason why they have is because of the price. there is a big thing though and this includes Pard is that
1. It wont be long before it is replaced with something else and what is new now will soon be cheaper to produce in a year or so by someone else. So Nightvision is not a returnable investment, look at the Pard007 out just over a year and complaints came out about the tech freezing then suddenly Pard 008 is out and I think there is a new one soon too. Pulsar has got like that with their thermals and distributors do pick and choose what they bring into the UK.

and

2. Warranties, Thomas Jacks can usually replace items that they do not have limited stock of quite quickly, The Pards are not easily replaced, but if ANY the nightvision companies have to get stuff sent back to manufacturer then your waiting literally months for a replacement or something to be fixed, This is the biggest issue right now in the UK for the Nightvision and Thermal markets.

Although at any given time I usually have around £4k's worth of Nightvision on test and I am currently just finishing a review on the Trail with built in LRF I always upon always stick with my Yukon Photon XT on my primary foxing outfit, why, because over the years I have shot thousand of rabbits and hundreds of foxes using it , it is no thrills and spills and I know it inside and out and rarely lets me down and it is now 6 years old and still going strong when everything else has passed on by and frankly it does the job.

So no brand selling from my part or snobbery as I am not a retailer
 

Primate

Well-Known Member
That is not at all what I am saying , what I am saying is that rear addons prefer glasss that is not heavily coated and usually even the cheaper brands such as Hawke have ranges that that will not suit rear mounted addons, this is a fact that has been discussed and agreed with as there is no way round it ,

I get you have taken my comment on "high end" as being snobbish when it not as "high end" does not necessarily mean expensive, many of the fixed power stalking scopes like Meopta and Schmidt that are well under the £500 mark wont work well with rear addon kits. It is not about brand snobbery in fact if you read any of the stuff I have put up I am all for the cheaper stuff if it works and gets the job done, I just know what works and does not work. if someone came to me and said they have say a Nightsite Eagle and they want to use it with their Z6i then I would have to say that that was the wrong scope even though it was nearly £2k new. If the same person said they want to put it on a Hawke Vantage or even a Sidewinder then I would say go ahead .

Many people have been totally taken by the Pards and I for one don't disagree with them but the main reason why they have is because of the price. there is a big thing though and this includes Pard is that
1. It wont be long before it is replaced with something else and what is new now will soon be cheaper to produce in a year or so by someone else. So Nightvision is not a returnable investment, look at the Pard007 out just over a year and complaints came out about the tech freezing then suddenly Pard 008 is out and I think there is a new one soon too. Pulsar has got like that with their thermals and distributors do pick and choose what they bring into the UK.

and

2. Warranties, Thomas Jacks can usually replace items that they do not have limited stock of quite quickly, The Pards are not easily replaced, but if ANY the nightvision companies have to get stuff sent back to manufacturer then your waiting literally months for a replacement or something to be fixed, This is the biggest issue right now in the UK for the Nightvision and Thermal markets.

Although at any given time I usually have around £4k's worth of Nightvision on test and I am currently just finishing a review on the Trail with built in LRF I always upon always stick with my Yukon Photon XT on my primary foxing outfit, why, because over the years I have shot thousand of rabbits and hundreds of foxes using it , it is no thrills and spills and I know it inside and out and rarely lets me down and it is now 6 years old and still going strong when everything else has passed on by and frankly it does the job.

So no brand selling from my part or snobbery as I am not a retailer
As regards warranties people wont be overly concerned with the pard nv007 and I'd disagree that Pards are not easily replaced. I've seen them second hand for £200. I pay more than that each season for a pair of Meindl boots. I wont be breaking into a sweat if mine freezes up. Unlike a chap I know who is having a right mare with a 4k thermal scope at the mo!
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
Yes the pards like cheap glass but in reality a foxing rifle is not generally the deer calibre so the argument for glass on either really is a no brainer if that’s what’s to be used .I have had 3 Yukon photons and wouldn’t have one given me but it has to be said I’m hard on the kit ,it has to please me not the other way round .
I have a Yukon rt brand new in box if anyone wants to make me a sensible offer .
What’s not been said is the best nv in the world is still shite if coupled with a poor ir .The dragon fly for me has proved this without doubt .
 

243 fallow

Well-Known Member
I wrote this quite a while ago it might be an interesting read.

what you have to remember that first and foremost this is a stalking forum and all though other sports are heavily discussed what is usually missed by ALL those selling night vision in the UK is that although other countries allow the use of digital and thermal equipment to shoot deer with day or night. England and Wales have no issue you using night vision and Thermal on deer during the day but only at night under license , but , in Scotland nightvision and thermal rifle scopes are illegal full stop on deer. You can spot with thermal but not allowed to shoot.

I think it is a little unfair that Cluny's post has been hijacked by yet another Pard argument , The Pard 007 has freezing problems and only works good with lowend glass usually the type of glass that general stalkers do not, Yess the 008 is good for the money and the IR is good but there have been faults showing in some case, Now do not get me wrong all Nightvision and thermal products have their issue.

Anyways have a look at this Nightvision and Thermal is it all that that it is cracked up to be? | Field Sports Scotland it will help with much of what I have said.

I know some of the retailers of Pard "Don't respect my opinion" but frankly I don't care I have been using NV products for 15 years and I have tested most that are on the market and my opinion is not the be all and end all but I understand how it works and I have been involved in building NV products.
I will say it time and time again you need more than just NV andThermal is your tool box and frankly nothing beats clear glass in daytime.
I tend to agree with you, I have a n355 which I found a bit of a pain to zero but now have no problems with it, I’ve looked through most of the cheaper nv as well, the n355 is miles better than the under a grand stuff, it’s go using cheap add ons but like you say most of us don’t have bottom end air gun scopes on our rifles.
 

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
Yes the pards like cheap glass but in reality a foxing rifle is not generally the deer calibre so the argument for glass on either really is a no brainer if that’s what’s to be used .I have had 3 Yukon photons and wouldn’t have one given me but it has to be said I’m hard on the kit ,it has to please me not the other way round .
I have a Yukon rt brand new in box if anyone wants to make me a sensible offer .
What’s not been said is the best nv in the world is still shite if coupled with a poor ir .The dragon fly for me has proved this without doubt .
In my article I mention this very thing , there are very few reasonably priced units that do not need an IR and when you are going down that route you are looking more into tubed NV products that cannot be used during the day or even risk having a cars headlights in as you will risk a very expensive kit.

There are 100's of torches to choose from , the new Laser Ir ranges are proving to be phenomenal but then we are talking about lamps we risk getting involved in the torch war, One thing I will defo stay away from is Nightmaster , Check out my Youtube to know why.

What I want to see though is the more use of LRF's in NV and thermal scopes , they are more than useful as the thing I have missed completely out of everything I have said in regards to NV products is that it takes a lot of thinking to work out distances when using NV things look very different through a digital camera.

Oh just to add the 6.5XT is far more reliable than the RT
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
Had that too mate and from a personal view ,wasn’t impressed .The pard is good day or night but why anyone would use it daytime I don’t know .
 

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
Had that too mate and from a personal view ,wasn’t impressed .The pard is good day or night but why anyone would use it daytime I don’t know .
people like to record their evidence now but I agree NV is just that it is for night time . I have a dedicated foxing rifle if I am stalking that rifle stays at home but that is the beauty about addons you have the best of both worlds but to use it during the day too is pointless
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
I bought the hawke sidewinder to go with the pard ,perfect combination out to 300 with the dragon fly ,on a tikka 223 .
Your right about range ,it’s hard to judge especially if you wind the mag up on the scope .
Lost count of the foxes we thought were closer when shot and had to use the thermal to find them ,usually 20-40 m beyond where first estimated .
Always amazes me how a dead fox can’t sometimes be seen if it falls in grass that is any longer than 6 inches sometimes less .
 

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
I bought the hawke sidewinder to go with the pard ,perfect combination out to 300 with the dragon fly ,on a tikka 223 .
Your right about range ,it’s hard to judge especially if you wind the mag up on the scope .
Lost count of the foxes we thought were closer when shot and had to use the thermal to find them ,usually 20-40 m beyond where first estimated .
Always amazes me how a dead fox can’t sometimes be seen if it falls in grass that is any longer than 6 inches sometimes less .
I lost six foxes this year that I put down to misses and the farmer found them when feeding or just bringing in sheep .
 

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