Back at the range with the new .22

[Sheprador1973]

If you didn't read my last post on the subject, I have been out with a new 22lr at my local range getting it set up...or trying.

CZ 455 Varmint 20" barrel in 22lr
Hawke Sidewinder Tac 8.5-25x42 scope
Hawke mounts
Sirocco Sm11 mod (for some shots)
Bipod & rear bag.

So last time I'd found that the SK Standard plus grouped best through my barrel at 50 yards. this is good as I can buy it at £4.50 for 50 at the club. However, when I stretched it out to 100 yards the groups opened up considerably. I was told by those that know better that this is not surprising with cheap ammo and my scope mag was too high (Id been shooting at x25 which proved shakey and made getting good eye relief a pain.)

Anyway, tried again today and was much happier with the outcome. Maybe Im being more realistic now? Scope now wound down to 16x mag. At 50 yards the groups were way under MOA. In fact after a box or two I got 'bored' and started shooting out the drawing pin heads that were holding the targets up! Very strangely (to my mind) when testing to see if the mod altered the POI (it didn't) the groups actually shrunk. I'd been expecting the opposite. And when I say shrunk I was getting as good as .290" groups with the SK! Very happy.

As expected it loosened up a bit at 100 yards. Still all groups now under 1 MOA...maybe I got a decent batch? Again, with the mod on the groups closed in a bit. Don't get that...

Finally, on advice, I tried some R50 ammo $$$. Again I think i'm lucky as the club owner sells them in 50s for only £9...considerably less than Ive seen advertised online. These grouped really well. Well under 1" at 100. Figure they're a bit pricey for rabbits and squirrels mind...but good fun for target shooting once in a while.

So got the rimmy up and running finally. Hopefully be able to get out in the field/woods with it soon to see what it can do there.

Thanks for reading

 

[Klenchblaize]

If you're getting sub MOA at 100 yards with subsonic 22lr rabbit ammo I would purchase all you can of that batch and go hunting rather than to the range!

Enjoy

K

 

[Blobby159]

That is pretty good 'Sheprador1973'. I too have a wee .22 "rimmy" that gives me truly surprising 100 yd groups with subsonic ammunition - 40gr. Winchester Subsonic H.P.'S. I took my little (and quite aged I have to say) 23" barrelled Anschutz sporter to an M.O.D. range near Cambridge (U.K.) and having gotten a little bored at that range with my 6.5x55 SE (and expensive plinking by God!) I dragged the rifle out of my car boot and started 'psphutting' away with the subsonics at a tiny shoot 'n see target on the target board just for fun.

It was admittedly a lovely still day, but after the first 5 shot clip I cranked up my scope's magnification and was extremely pleased and surprised to see a group I could cover with my not to fat thumb end!! Thinking this to be a fluke I did it again three more times with but 2 fliers opening up two of these groups to perhaps just 1 & 1/2" so fluke it was NOT.

I have since bowled over several bunnies in that region of distance using the very tip of my scope's lower thick part of the reticule which is a classic double X or whatever it's called.

One thing I do to my 40gr. Winchester subbies before taking them afield is to very slightly open up and uniform the hollow point and bullet meplat with a light twist or two of a small hi-speed drill bit between my fingers whilst watching T.V. at night. Agreed tis a bit 'anal' but I am of the opinion that this was/is contributing to the stellar accuracy I get from these relatively cheap but good quality Aussie rounds.

ATB... and safe shooting

 

[Sheprador1973]

If you're getting sub MOA at 100 yards with subsonic 22lr rabbit ammo I would purchase all you can of that batch and go hunting rather than to the range!

Enjoy

K

I think I will on both counts thanks mate. Just need to sort out a permission now!

 

[Sheprador1973]

That is pretty good 'Sheprador1973'. I too have a wee .22 "rimmy" that gives me truly surprising 100 yd groups with subsonic ammunition - 40gr. Winchester Subsonic H.P.'S. I took my little (and quite aged I have to say) 23" barrelled Anschutz sporter to an M.O.D. range near Cambridge (U.K.) and having gotten a little bored at that range with my 6.5x55 SE (and expensive plinking by God!) I dragged the rifle out of my car boot and started 'psphutting' away with the subsonics at a tiny shoot 'n see target on the target board just for fun.

It was admittedly a lovely still day, but after the first 5 shot clip I cranked up my scope's magnification and was extremely pleased and surprised to see a group I could cover with my not to fat thumb end!! Thinking this to be a fluke I did it again three more times with but 2 fliers opening up two of these groups to perhaps just 1 & 1/2" so fluke it was NOT.

I have since bowled over several bunnies in that region of distance using the very tip of my scope's lower thick part of the reticule which is a classic double X or whatever it's called.

One thing I do to my 40gr. Winchester subbies before taking them afield is to very slightly open up and uniform the hollow point and bullet meplat with a light twist or two of a small hi-speed drill bit between my fingers whilst watching T.V. at night. Agreed tis a bit 'anal' but I am of the opinion that this was/is contributing to the stellar accuracy I get from these relatively cheap but good quality Aussie rounds.

ATB... and safe shooting

I know it not really the right forum but it is good fun shooting away with the 22. Like you say, firing off a few dozen certrefire rounds with any great frequency begins to hurt the pocket! So I see it as good practice. For a number of reasons I can't get out with the .308 very often. Love it when I can but my friends 100 yard rimfire range is open every weekend. And they can be stunningly accurate Im finding...its just me that screws the odd shot. But again, hopefully what I learn there will transfer to the bigger bore rifles?

Interesting what you do with the drill bit! Ive heard of people buying kits to make hollow points from target 22lr in the belief that they'll 'expand' more but no idea it could affect accuracy. Tbh the SK Standard Plus Ive been shooting is a solid bullet and I reckon if it hits a rabbit or squirrel in the head at any reasonable range, they won't be complaining about a lack of expansion!

Thanks for the post and all the best! P

 

[Sheprador1973]

Any thoughts on the effect of fitting the mod on groups lads? I'll post some pics when I can...but without doubt accuracy improved with it on contrary to everything Ive read about moderators before. Be interested to hear your thoughts or similar experiences.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Any thoughts on the effect of fitting the mod on groups lads? I'll post some pics when I can...but without doubt accuracy improved with it on contrary to everything Ive read about moderators before. Be interested to hear your thoughts or similar experiences.

Barrel harmonics?

I'm no expert but a far more knowledgeable SD member is sure to be along to confirm why.

K

 

[Blobby159]

Any thoughts on the effect of fitting the mod on groups lads? I'll post some pics when I can...but without doubt accuracy improved with it on contrary to everything Ive read about moderators before. Be interested to hear your thoughts or similar experiences.

My own personal experiences have been that a mod actually does change the point of aim somewhat (usually dropping the bullets in lower on target of around a couple of inches), but ALSO my groupings tend to shrink slightly. Nothing outstanding but most times the improvements are there.
I TOO have wondered about the affects they will have on barrel harmonics 'KlenchBlaize' and that is a sensible & considered option, but there is also, especially with the harder recoiling rounds, an effect not unlike having a covered in 'muzzle brake' at the end of the barrel as the streaming, fast hot gasses expend much of their initial energies on the internal moddy baffling systems. I don't know if anyone in the firearms industry at large has ever done any studies around this, but if they have I am one who would like a read...

ATB .... and safe shooting.

 

[Blobby159]

I know it not really the right forum but it is good fun shooting away with the 22. Like you say, firing off a few dozen certrefire rounds with any great frequency begins to hurt the pocket! So I see it as good practice. For a number of reasons I can't get out with the .308 very often. Love it when I can but my friends 100 yard rimfire range is open every weekend. And they can be stunningly accurate Im finding...its just me that screws the odd shot. But again, hopefully what I learn there will transfer to the bigger bore rifles?

Interesting what you do with the drill bit! Ive heard of people buying kits to make hollow points from target 22lr in the belief that they'll 'expand' more but no idea it could affect accuracy. Tbh the SK Standard Plus Ive been shooting is a solid bullet and I reckon if it hits a rabbit or squirrel in the head at any reasonable range, they won't be complaining about a lack of expansion!

Thanks for the post and all the best! P

Just for consideration here relating to the expansion of .22LR rounds, especially those wee subbie h.p.s here's a thought...
Some years ago I shot and nailed two rabbits in quick succession that were cowering down in a muddy farm field gateway, in the channel ruts of squidgey mud tractor tracks. Both bullets were through & through the high chest cavities of each bunny. On the far side of each from my point of view were obviuous cone-shaped holes in the walls of the muddy tractor tracks, and so out of interest I dug into each hole with my hunting knife and recovered the projectiles.
Both rounds were opened up (my style again with the drill bit BEFORE firing) H&N subsonic h.p.s and that particular L.R. bullet additionally is quite soft lead with a flat frontal profile - wadcutter almost with radiused outer edges.

You guessed the punchline though as both recovered bullets had hardly changed shape AT ALL!!! To my eye one could have maybe even have reloaded them to be chambered and fired again. Just to add effect to this I doubt I shot that brace of bunnies at any greater than 20 yds, likely more around 15 yds or so, having surprised them in that gateway they had just frozen and hunkered down...

So I doubt that my tinkering around with the hollow points, or people drilling out h.p.s in target solids actually has any real World affect on bullet expansion.

The tests that I have seen on .22LR rounds (H.V.s b.t.w. and NOT subbies) has been carried out by firing at quite close ranges into pug modelling clay. That is ONE DENSE medium and hauls up a relatively light weight, slow moving lead projectile quite quickly and is NOT a flesh comparison. Such tests value is perhaps to "Compare & Contrast" the expandability of various makes of .22LR rounds and that is about it...

ATB .... and safe shooting.

 

[bullet chucker]

Sounds to me, that your rimmy barrel has as they say, settled down and your groups have improved. I may be wrong.

BC.

 

[1066]

Any thoughts on the effect of fitting the mod on groups lads? I'll post some pics when I can...but without doubt accuracy improved with it on contrary to everything Ive read about moderators before. Be interested to hear your thoughts or similar experiences.

I've noticed this myself - I've had an old Voere for over 40 years with an unfashionably long barrel. It's a very accurate rifle for a semi-auto but even better when wearing a PH mod. A barrel tuner is just a weight at the end of your barrel that can be adjusted to tune the harmonics for best accuracy. If, by pure chance, the weight/length of your mod happens to suit the barrel accuracy can improve.

I spent some time investigating this to see if I could get any quantifiable, repeatable results. I also have a Sako P94, fitted with Llija match barrel, I machined an adjustable tuner that can also be used with a standard mod. (The only one of it's kind I believe). Unfortunately I didn't reach any concrete results, the rifle was accurate to start with and I couldn't get any consistent improvement.

 

[Davee]

"One thing I do to my 40gr. Winchester subbies before taking them afield is to very slightly open up and uniform the hollow point and bullet meplat with a light twist or two of a small hi-speed drill bit between my fingers whilst watching T.V. at night. Agreed tis a bit 'anal' but I am of the opinion that this was/is contributing to the stellar accuracy I get from these relatively cheap but good quality Aussie rounds." Blobby 159. I think this affects consistency more than anything else, you only have to look at the openings of the HP's to realise how bad they are, ranging from a pin-hole to a crater!
I use a 452 -mainly because I'm Left-handed-, compared to the 6.5 it's a lightweight; so, at 25 magnification it can wobble about a bit. Thus I shoot at +-12mag and crank it up to 25 to see where the little blighters have gone. That said shooting on 25 mag teaches you breath control etc which is good training for a full bore!
My club used to only sell Fiocci and CCI, neither of which my gun liked, I bought Eley subs and Eley Club, and had a vast improvement, other shooters noticed the improvement and eventually the club started to stock them. To me the slight extra expense is the difference between satisfaction and frustration, so well worth it. I also run my stock down to a box of 50 then buy my maximum allowance in one go -all with the same batch numbers.
My SAK mod shifts the POI 0.1mil left and .2mil high but, does not appear to materially affect the repeatability.
On the bunnies my son uses Club in his 455, the only difference is that they cotton on to his presence quicker. Having said that this year we are only seeing them in ones and twos, formerly we had groups of 15 - 20. Also see fewer youngsters, but are seeing Hares more often.

(oh dear, I originally typed 'p***k' which appears as ***** in the post, changed it to hole, are we being overly censored?)

 

[CarlW]

"One thing I do to my 40gr. Winchester subbies before taking them afield is to very slightly open up and uniform the hollow point and bullet meplat with a light twist or two of a small hi-speed drill bit between my fingers whilst watching T.V. at night. Agreed tis a bit 'anal' but I am of the opinion that this was/is contributing to the stellar accuracy I get from these relatively cheap but good quality Aussie rounds." Blobby 159. I think this affects consistency more than anything else, you only have to look at the openings of the HP's to realise how bad they are, ranging from a pin-hole to a crater!
I use a 452 -mainly because I'm Left-handed-, compared to the 6.5 it's a lightweight; so, at 25 magnification it can wobble about a bit. Thus I shoot at +-12mag and crank it up to 25 to see where the little blighters have gone. That said shooting on 25 mag teaches you breath control etc which is good training for a full bore!
My club used to only sell Fiocci and CCI, neither of which my gun liked, I bought Eley subs and Eley Club, and had a vast improvement, other shooters noticed the improvement and eventually the club started to stock them. To me the slight extra expense is the difference between satisfaction and frustration, so well worth it. I also run my stock down to a box of 50 then buy my maximum allowance in one go -all with the same batch numbers.
My SAK mod shifts the POI 0.1mil left and .2mil high but, does not appear to materially affect the repeatability.
On the bunnies my son uses Club in his 455, the only difference is that they cotton on to his presence quicker. Having said that this year we are only seeing them in ones and twos, formerly we had groups of 15 - 20. Also see fewer youngsters, but are seeing Hares more often.

(oh dear, I originally typed 'p***k' which appears as ***** in the post, changed it to hole, are we being overly censored?)

'Anal' seemed to survive the censors OK.