Badger vaccination

[old keeper]

Practical to vaccinate? Best they get on with the remaining 500,000+ animals

Vaccination was never in doubt as such, it is more how do you go about doing it en masse.

I too am pro badger control for various reasons but I am not necessarily in favour of formal government/defra led culls. They are a huge cost and all of this could be avoided if they just took them off ticket and allowed landowners to control them as they see fit. It would create pockets of badger free zones that could be managed each year by those with a vested interest in badger control and on the contrary, it would create other pockets of badger friendly zones where landowners are happy for them to be present. All without having to **** about with sticking in a needle in over half a million wild animals.

I totally endorse Cottis' point of view. Again, as an old man, I remember that badger numbers were always under control in the areas where they needed to be. Trapping badgers for vaccination would be extremely time-consuming and there is virtually no way of knowing just how many badgers there are in some areas. I've lived in this village for sixty years and still have little or no idea of just how many badgers there are inhabiting the local cliff land.

I was working for the NFU when the ban on killing badgers was implemented and well remember how the incidence of BTb increased substantially within a year. Today, I'm afraid the countryside appears to be run by people who seem to have little practical idea of how it works!

 

[User00056]

With respect, the "leave it to us" approach doesn't seem to be having much impact on the deer overpopulation situation, does it?

That's possibly because so many stalkers won't take head shots

 

[MattJ]

If you can vaccinate badgers, why can you not vaccinate all cattle? It seems to me that this solution would remove the need for culling/vaccination of badgers (thought it may result in the reduction of biodiversity which comes from high badger populations).

 

[VSS]

If you can vaccinate badgers, why can you not vaccinate all cattle? It seems to me that this solution would remove the need for culling/vaccination of badgers (thought it may result in the reduction of biodiversity which comes from high badger populations).

Because the vaccine isn't particularly effective in cattle, and also because testing for the presence of bTB in vaccinated cattle can result in a lot of inaccurate results (eg, false positives). In addition, vaccinated cattle are not eligible for export.

 

[Hazlett]

To put it slightly differently, the goal is to produce an effective vaccine and to be able to differentiate between vaccinated animals and those with bTB.

 

[Mr Tree]

Why is it compulsory to kill Cattle with TB, but not badgers? Killing the cattle but leaving an important source of infection in the field is just plumb crazy. Can vaccinated badgers still get TB, but recover, & then pass on infection to cattle?
Years ago the Ministry got it right, they would wait for the third badger to emerge from the set, shoot it, & test for TB in the laboratory, if the animal was infected. the whole set was gassed. If it was negative, they would leave well alone, the last thing you want is to kill clean badgers, & leave an opening for infected animals to move in. Badgers are family minded & will drive off strangers.

 

[starr shot]

With respect, the "leave it to us" approach doesn't seem to be having much impact on the deer overpopulation situation, does it?

Ah but there are no Gold medal badgers.

 

[starr shot]

All you need is a Government with a pair of balls to say Badgers are now on general licence with a close season & if you get caught abusing them by digging or fighting them you will go to prison for a substantial time.

 

[VSS]

All you need is a Government with a pair of balls to say Badgers are now on general licence with a close season & if you get caught abusing them by digging or fighting them you will go to prison for a substantial time.

Yes. You would have thought it was easy enough to put a species on or off licence as it's population fluctuates. Monitor the population, and ammend the licence accordingly. Trouble is, protection seems to be a one-way street.

 

[nun_hunter]

The badger cull in our area has partially redressed the balance of wild life species for the better.

Why hasn't this been formally documented and publicised? Surely GWCT or similar would have been all over this data looking for a solid scientific argument to remove formalised culls and add badgers to the general licence or at least allow some form of control?

 

[nun_hunter]

Yes. You would have thought it was easy enough to put a species on or off licence as it's population fluctuates. Monitor the population, and ammend the licence accordingly. Trouble is, protection seems to be a one-way street.

That sounds far too sensible. Almost like the American tag system for overall population management and to be edit the entire ecosystem.

 

[Jelen]

Why hasn't this been formally documented and publicised? Surely GWCT or similar would have been all over this data looking for a solid scientific argument to remove formalised culls and add badgers to the general licence or at least allow some form of control?

Because it's just anecdotal by lay people, and not scientifically measured by people with degrees?
It is a great wasted opportunity. I have been told (don't quote me) that the badger carcases are not tested for TB. if true that is another greatly wasted opportunity to amass data.
I suspect a lack of funding has something to with it. As for the GWCT not being involved, you'd have to ask them

 

[devon deer stalker]

With respect, the "leave it to us" approach doesn't seem to be having much impact on the deer overpopulation situation, does it?

With respect, the badgers aren't quite as out of control as the deer, when farmers were left to control badgers prior to protection there wasn't a problem. It's 2 separate issues so perhaps I shouldn't have compared the 2, but I stand by over population of badgers or deer leads to an increase in tb.

 

[Hazlett]

I have been told (don't quote me) that the badger carcases are not tested for TB. if true that is another greatly wasted opportunity to amass data.

I collected for an APHA project testing roadkill badgers. Results regularly took 12 weeks plus and often needed re-testing due to growth of other TB variants than bTB. They wouldn't test an animal that had a ruptured abdomen because of the difficulty in isolating bTB due to it being so slow growing cf contaminants.

On the face of it, testing badger carcasses for TB seems common sense, in practice it's not so straightforward.

 

[Cyres]

Bbc Countryfile did a programme on TB and featured this ladies work.
She had traps set in the open on moorland which I thought was strange.
Appeared they inoculated and spray painted but not microchiped.
Big issues in control of badgers where lots of maize is grown and lots of areas not in cull so no access. Also maize could well be one of the reasons why the badger population has exploded.
To think you can sit downwind of a badger sett and shoot them all is at best nieve.
On my nightly foxing rounds I have seen badgers cover large tracts of ground very quickly.
Decades ago when I started foxing badgers were uncommon but now in places they can outnumber foxs.
Best way forward would be to put badgers on licence and shoot on sight. Some form of vaccination for cattle is also needed. Neither of which is likely to happen until we have some knowledgeable unbiassed people in place.
D

 

[finnbear270]

Ah but there are no Gold medal badgers.

My carrying cull mate would beg to differ, one we took he couldn't lift it on his own, I had to help him stand after we got it in the Roe sack.

 

[finnbear270]

Why hasn't this been formally documented and publicised? Surely GWCT or similar would have been all over this data looking for a solid scientific argument to remove formalised culls and add badgers to the general licence or at least allow some form of control?

Because the loud voices of people like that fool guitarist get more attention.

 

[finnbear270]

Bbc Countryfile did a programme on TB and featured this ladies work.
She had traps set in the open on moorland which I thought was strange.
Appeared they inoculated and spray painted but not microchiped.
Big issues in control of badgers where lots of maize is grown and lots of areas not in cull so no access. Also maize could well be one of the reasons why the badger population has exploded.
To think you can sit downwind of a badger sett and shoot them all is at best nieve.
On my nightly foxing rounds I have seen badgers cover large tracts of ground very quickly.
Decades ago when I started foxing badgers were uncommon but now in places they can outnumber foxs.
Best way forward would be to put badgers on licence and shoot on sight. Some form of vaccination for cattle is also needed. Neither of which is likely to happen until we have some knowledgeable unbiassed people in place.
D

We did one sett completely over a week of nights.

 

[Jelen]

I collected for an APHA project testing roadkill badgers. Results regularly took 12 weeks plus and often needed re-testing due to growth of other TB variants than bTB. They wouldn't test an animal that had a ruptured abdomen because of the difficulty in isolating bTB due to it being so slow growing cf contaminants.

On the face of it, testing badger carcasses for TB seems common sense, in practice it's not so straightforward.

Thank you

 

[Dunwaters]

Ah but there are no Gold medal badgers.

Oh yes there are!
CIC will happily measure and grade your trophy.