Ballistic calculators cannot be relied upon to give accurate bullet drops
- Thread starter Humpy
- Start date
By anything in particular?
it was that but also the anti material elements say a .50 cal would be used for?
Does sound a bit fantastical. Hence my use of that word earlier. If real, very unlikely to be talking about it on forums. I mean, if I did that about secret stuff that I might happen to have been involved with, I might expect never to work again in my specialism, lose my clearance, and even jeopardise that of some close associates and family.
Gandy, I assume you are talking Cal 50 performance on humans? Saw a interview with a former governor of a northwest US state maybe 40 years ago who was a gunner on a Cal 50 Browning in South Pacific and they were hit with a Jap human wave attack across a creek and his sergeant told him to drop the officer with the sword first and he tagged him first time in the middle of the creek 50 yards away. After the attack was repelled he got up and walked out to the officer and stepped off the range and he finally fell 17 yards from the Cal 50 muzzle with 37 50 cal holes in him.
I saw captured footage during Nam that showed a NVA gunner open up on a South Viet unit walking down the road and the first guy took two hits with the Cal 50 and did nothing. The third round hit him and turned him a complete back flip and before he came down another round hit him in the air and spun him around over 180 degrees.
The Army Wound Ballistic Lab was only interested in humans. Aberdeen did testing at plate and different ranges and obliquity. I was never involved in plate testing or body armor testing.
Sharpie the report is published is and has been public record on the internet and that is why I even started mentioning it in 2015 as I was told it was no longer close hold. I did not tell anyone from 82 till then when I found out.
As far as programs being better only way to find out is zero your rifle on a 4ft X 8ft. board covered in news print for 100 yards poa/poi and then increase the range to 300 yards and shoot 10 rds at same target and get the average drop of all ten shots, then shoot at 600 yards and get the average drop and compare it to the program you are running and see how it matches.
I have a Bausch & Lomb optical range finder about 3 feet wide and I checked it and it was within about two yards on my 600 yard range target.
Aberdeen set up Test Operation Procedures in the 40s and everything has been tested the same way since thus they can compare performance of weapons and issue ammo to with weapons with issue ammo in years past.
There was a new range just in before I got there where they had a computer than could measure the time to observe and strike a E silhouette target at 3 close ranges with targets in a 90 degree fan to determine the quickest pointing rifle/sight combinations. I wasn't on the test but a test director I just hung up with who called me when I was out walking told me the M1 Carbine beat everything in the Army Inventory right before I arrived at the Proving Ground.
That range was not for our testing but was run by another section there. I would have loved to have even been able to shoot the course at least once but I never saw anyone on it while there.
I saw captured footage during Nam that showed a NVA gunner open up on a South Viet unit walking down the road and the first guy took two hits with the Cal 50 and did nothing. The third round hit him and turned him a complete back flip and before he came down another round hit him in the air and spun him around over 180 degrees.
The Army Wound Ballistic Lab was only interested in humans. Aberdeen did testing at plate and different ranges and obliquity. I was never involved in plate testing or body armor testing.
Sharpie the report is published is and has been public record on the internet and that is why I even started mentioning it in 2015 as I was told it was no longer close hold. I did not tell anyone from 82 till then when I found out.
As far as programs being better only way to find out is zero your rifle on a 4ft X 8ft. board covered in news print for 100 yards poa/poi and then increase the range to 300 yards and shoot 10 rds at same target and get the average drop of all ten shots, then shoot at 600 yards and get the average drop and compare it to the program you are running and see how it matches.
I have a Bausch & Lomb optical range finder about 3 feet wide and I checked it and it was within about two yards on my 600 yard range target.
Aberdeen set up Test Operation Procedures in the 40s and everything has been tested the same way since thus they can compare performance of weapons and issue ammo to with weapons with issue ammo in years past.
There was a new range just in before I got there where they had a computer than could measure the time to observe and strike a E silhouette target at 3 close ranges with targets in a 90 degree fan to determine the quickest pointing rifle/sight combinations. I wasn't on the test but a test director I just hung up with who called me when I was out walking told me the M1 Carbine beat everything in the Army Inventory right before I arrived at the Proving Ground.
That range was not for our testing but was run by another section there. I would have loved to have even been able to shoot the course at least once but I never saw anyone on it while there.
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levigsp
Well-Known Member
What I find very strange is the whole statement and I either don't understand or its wrong. Ill explain, I had a gun built, and scoped and it was delivered to my address in Poland, I was in Scotland at the time. I loaded up ammo for it in increments of .5 of a grain, 4 grains above and below a similar gun I have in the UK. When I got chance I fired the ammo and found the most accurate and played about a bit as normal.
I went out on the rang and fired 5 shot groups from cold at 200 yards, adjusted zero and did it again. Then repeated same at 600yards. I sent the following information to the USA by email, Hight above sea level, direction of fire, wind speed, air temp, humidity, ranges fired at and how many click it took to get from 200 zero to 600 zero, bullet name weight and bc, in return I got a printout of my ballistic calc, bullet drops etc etc.
Next time out in no wind conditions I found bang on a 200, 300, 600, but wrong at 100, 1000. Re sent info and got new print out, this time spot on at every range.
When I went out in the mountains, checked on app what compensation I needed for my current Hight and air temp and first bullet sent an animal to write its last testament, shot was where aimed. So in my book modern ballistic calculations are spot on and I mean spot on. Sorry about the long winded explanation.
I went out on the rang and fired 5 shot groups from cold at 200 yards, adjusted zero and did it again. Then repeated same at 600yards. I sent the following information to the USA by email, Hight above sea level, direction of fire, wind speed, air temp, humidity, ranges fired at and how many click it took to get from 200 zero to 600 zero, bullet name weight and bc, in return I got a printout of my ballistic calc, bullet drops etc etc.
Next time out in no wind conditions I found bang on a 200, 300, 600, but wrong at 100, 1000. Re sent info and got new print out, this time spot on at every range.
When I went out in the mountains, checked on app what compensation I needed for my current Hight and air temp and first bullet sent an animal to write its last testament, shot was where aimed. So in my book modern ballistic calculations are spot on and I mean spot on. Sorry about the long winded explanation.
Brian is a friend and I have shot with him at Camp Perry. Last time was 2012 before I had the wreck that I got awarded a titanium plate in my neck for. He shot on the point to my left in the Wimbledon or Leech don't remember which. He had done a lot of research I have not had the time to keep up to date on.
I have an advantage as I have 600 yard range behind my house and 900 yard firing point about 200 yards from the house so really don't need a calculator.
I have an advantage as I have 600 yard range behind my house and 900 yard firing point about 200 yards from the house so really don't need a calculator.
My farther in law broke his neck how’s the plate affect your shooting; have you managed to carry on.
I would also call Brian if he’s a mate, he sells ballistic calculators; put him on the right track.
Your lucky to have your own range; what do you do if you want to hit a target at 758 yards?
reloader54
Well-Known Member
with the correct twist it's possible to make the bullet go in a complete circle, and hit the target right next to you.
reloader54
Well-Known Member
sorry mate but its mostly above my head, but I didn't think a little humour would hurt none, I am genuinely looking forward to more tales from Humpy, no offence intended.
Well, I see him as a newly joined wind-up merchant. Or a borderline amusing writer of tall tales. Which is entertaining I suppose.
Keep it coming Humpy please, but you will need to up your game continuously to stay ahead of realities. You are, at least, entertaining. But not to be taken seriously.
Keep it coming Humpy please, but you will need to up your game continuously to stay ahead of realities. You are, at least, entertaining. But not to be taken seriously.
A common error on your part and classic Anna Freud (Sigmund's daughter) there Groot, straight from "The Ego and the Mechanisms of Defense"
Riddick we only saw each other at Camp Perry and there are a number of friends I only saw at Camp Perry on a yearly basis as very few full bore shooters from this area.
Insofar as the neck goes I got rear ended and had to have C5, 6 and 7 fused as I and everybody else on the planet have spinal deterrioration due to HMS.
HMS is my diagnosis for HIGH MILEAGE SYNDROME and per the docs every one over 55 has it. Getting rearended rearranged everything and Doctor did not want to do surgery unless emergency. He released me to ride my mountain bike and both arms went to sleep all the way to shoulders within ten minutes and I got back with Doc for another MRI and he said he had to do something quickly or I was in big trouble.
I am at the point now (per Doc) that if I am in another good wreck I will be paralyzed from neck down or pronounced dead on the scene and shooting prone is off my fun list. I have met three other shooters with same problem and none were able to return to prone shooting.
Last June 8 I had a head on collision with woman who crossed center line and hit me as I was trying to leave the road to avoid such and she rolled me. I sustained another Grade 3 concussion (aka knocked cold) and when I came to I was suspended by seat belts. The Lord was definitely looking out for me as I got out without the usual things folks get from air bag deployments. I do have a major hearing loss due to air bags going off which I understand is the equivalent of two 12 gage shells being fired in car with windows up 8 inches from your face/ears. I have been getting folks out of wrecks for 25 years with volunteer fire service and every last one has broken nose, busted lips, something broken etc etc from getting hit by air bags which I did not feel as I was knocked out. I did not realize they had deployed till I went to the yard and saw my vehicle and noted the air bags deployments. I went to ENT and he said I was the fourth one that day with hearing loss from air bags. I asked a emergency room doc if he had ever had a wreck victim with air bag deployment and no visible injury and he said he had not. That only leaves the Lord was watching over me.
I have about ten fullbore target rifles and two ranges and can't use them properly. In a six year period I made the Palma 20 five times and year I missed I was 21 st. Palma 20 means I finished in the top 20 in the country in long range championships which includes 600, 800, 900 and 1000 yards. Several years ago our NRA did not want to pay the patrol boats at Camp Perry and moved the Nationals to Indiana and there is no 1000 yard range there.
If anyone is interested in bugging out of England and coming to the states there is 520 acres for sale 1/2 mile from me for sale that I believe would make into 1000 yards easily. The asking price is $3520.00 per acre. There are deer running that property as well as mine but I don't shoot them because wife won't cook or eat deer due to Bambi Syndrome. I have hit a couple with my truck though. Deer bed down in my fields at night and have bedded down under big tree in front yard 25 yards from the house. I walked up on a 12 point a couple months back on my 5 mile walks in the AM.
Insofar as the neck goes I got rear ended and had to have C5, 6 and 7 fused as I and everybody else on the planet have spinal deterrioration due to HMS.
HMS is my diagnosis for HIGH MILEAGE SYNDROME and per the docs every one over 55 has it. Getting rearended rearranged everything and Doctor did not want to do surgery unless emergency. He released me to ride my mountain bike and both arms went to sleep all the way to shoulders within ten minutes and I got back with Doc for another MRI and he said he had to do something quickly or I was in big trouble.
I am at the point now (per Doc) that if I am in another good wreck I will be paralyzed from neck down or pronounced dead on the scene and shooting prone is off my fun list. I have met three other shooters with same problem and none were able to return to prone shooting.
Last June 8 I had a head on collision with woman who crossed center line and hit me as I was trying to leave the road to avoid such and she rolled me. I sustained another Grade 3 concussion (aka knocked cold) and when I came to I was suspended by seat belts. The Lord was definitely looking out for me as I got out without the usual things folks get from air bag deployments. I do have a major hearing loss due to air bags going off which I understand is the equivalent of two 12 gage shells being fired in car with windows up 8 inches from your face/ears. I have been getting folks out of wrecks for 25 years with volunteer fire service and every last one has broken nose, busted lips, something broken etc etc from getting hit by air bags which I did not feel as I was knocked out. I did not realize they had deployed till I went to the yard and saw my vehicle and noted the air bags deployments. I went to ENT and he said I was the fourth one that day with hearing loss from air bags. I asked a emergency room doc if he had ever had a wreck victim with air bag deployment and no visible injury and he said he had not. That only leaves the Lord was watching over me.
I have about ten fullbore target rifles and two ranges and can't use them properly. In a six year period I made the Palma 20 five times and year I missed I was 21 st. Palma 20 means I finished in the top 20 in the country in long range championships which includes 600, 800, 900 and 1000 yards. Several years ago our NRA did not want to pay the patrol boats at Camp Perry and moved the Nationals to Indiana and there is no 1000 yard range there.
If anyone is interested in bugging out of England and coming to the states there is 520 acres for sale 1/2 mile from me for sale that I believe would make into 1000 yards easily. The asking price is $3520.00 per acre. There are deer running that property as well as mine but I don't shoot them because wife won't cook or eat deer due to Bambi Syndrome. I have hit a couple with my truck though. Deer bed down in my fields at night and have bedded down under big tree in front yard 25 yards from the house. I walked up on a 12 point a couple months back on my 5 mile walks in the AM.
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In general. I shot my 308 out to 1260 today and was withing a half minute after plugging in all the data. Seemed to work for me.~Muir
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