Barrels Up Or Down?

[David Field]

I see people, after clay ground tuition, doing the exact opposite, barrels pointing at the ground and the stock lifted until the action is closed.

I'll ask a different instructor, next time I go, what their preference is.

 

[David Field]

Just a thought, if you are in one of the sporting layouts inside the frame, will the frame bar not get in the way of bringing gun up to target if loaded barrels down and stock brought up?

 

[tarponhead]

I carry my rifle muzzle down when loaded if its on the sling with the barrel pointing forward and down with one hand on the the forend controlling where it points. I prefer to have it in hand though, but you do need to use binoculars etc. My preference is to carry an unloaded rifle, but it some cases in woodland, this is not a practical.

If you have a mod that is in danger of getting plugged your barrel is too long, or sling needs moving out onto the barrel. If you are carrying a moded rifle with a long barrel and sling on foreend I do not to walk behind you as the rifle tends to roll back and whoever is behind will constantly look down your muzzle.

If your barrels are long then tape over the end of the barrel to keep out the *****, but equally having the muzzle under control stops the risk.

If guns are in a slip - muzzle down.

Shotgun - when loaded barrels up - I hate seeing people swing a loaded gun up through the line. Even worse is the practice from clay grounds where you load and then keep hold of the stock and bring barrels up to the stock with hand still near trigger. Its just a matter of time before a gun goes off as you close and the shot goes off straight toward the beaters.

When loading a shotgun bring stok to the barrels with barrels pointing towards the ground. Then bring barrels into the air before putting trigger hand any where near the triggers.

+1 for all this good advice. I got reprimanded for unloading a rifle with muzzle down at Bisley - the RCO said I should point it at the berm and not the ground. I always make sue of control of where the muzzle is pointing, especially when crawling into position - thinking of the guide behind me. Also, making sure muzzle is well away from the guide setting up sticks.

 

[Kevgun]

I've been on the Clay circuit for 25 + years and can't say that iv'e seen the gun being closed with the Barrels in the air either, it's always point it safely down range into the ground and lift the stock to close, and if you read the CPSA Handbook that's what they teach in it, the most important thing is muzzle awareness and knowing what and who is around you, i do a lot of beating and i must say ( and iv'e told quite a few ) Game shooters are not as aware of who's around as they should be especially after Lunch when they have been Drinking. where as if you go to any decent Clay ground and doing anything that makes people nervous your soon told about it.

And as for carrying a Rifle mines always muzzle up loaded magazine over an empty chamber, i personally don't see the need to wander around with a loaded gun over my shoulder, but being a Engineer i don't trust anything mechanical so i would sooner risk the Animal bolting whilst i'm loading a round.

 

[David Field]

I've been on the Clay circuit for 25 + years and can't say that iv'e seen the gun being closed with the Barrels in the air either.

I must have picked the instructor up wrong and nobody has every corrected me.
I'm here to learn.

 

[oowee]

I would like to see this done. My cartridges would fall out unless I was using my semi.

I was taught, at the clay ground, to load while keeping stock almost vertical so when closing gun the barrels are pointing up. So if the gun goes off it will be pointing up and away from anyone.

 

[McKenzie]

I must have picked the instructor up wrong and nobody has every corrected me.
I'm here to learn.

You were perfectly safe when I was out with you & I would have mentioned it if I thought that you were doing anything wrong.

 

[Dexter]

I don't get this muzzle plugging thing. It's highly unlikely that you will plug a moderator but even so, just put a piece of electricians tape over the end. There will be a hole in it before the bullet has gone more than a few cms along the barrel. It will therefore not effect accuracy at all. It will also stop water getting in whilst dragging it through wet vegetation. I have several pieces wrapped around the moderators for a quick replacement when I blow a hole through it.
It will also work just fine over the end of the barrel on un-moderated rifles.

 

[David Field]

I would like to see this done. My cartridges would fall out unless I was using my semi.

Just had a practice at home (with snapcaps of course) to see what I actually do. Stock about 70 degrees, close the barrel up so that when it snaps shut it is pointing at where i'm expecting the clay to be, then bring the stock up to my shoulder without moving the tip of the barrel much. So this is all wrong? Seems safer and quicker than swinging a loaded barrel from the ground all the way to the target.

 

[Alantoo]

Just had a practice at home (with snapcaps of course) to see what I actually do. Stock about 70 degrees, close the barrel up so that when it snaps shut it is pointing at where i'm expecting the clay to be, then bring the stock up to my shoulder without moving the tip of the barrel much. So this is all wrong? Seems safer and quicker than swinging a loaded barrel from the ground all the way to the target.

Did you actually try it with the stock almost vertical as you originally described, just out of interest?

Alan

 

[David Field]

I’ve just re-read my post. Brain muddled tonight. I meant 70-80degrees from horizontal so yes almost vertical. Well 170 degrees

 

[Logie dog]

I sometimes think people can become somewhat fixated on this topic. Sticking to an unbreakable mantra can lead to complacency. Muzzle awareness is everything.... in my humble opinion.

 

[Kevgun]

Logie Dog, you're absolutely right with muzzle awareness all the others fall into place anyway, being aware of where your pointing your barrels means you won't point them at anything your not supposed to including not plugging your moderator into the ground.

 

[Alantoo]

I sometimes think people can become somewhat fixated on this topic. Sticking to an unbreakable mantra can lead to complacency. Muzzle awareness is everything.... in my humble opinion.

I think you are right, muzzle awareness is the unbreakable mantra ...the circumstances determine the best direction to point the muzzle. I usually carry muzzle down but am still aware of concrete or hard surfaces or if there are dogs underfoot and etc.

Alan

 

[Heym SR20]

I think you are right, muzzle awareness is the unbreakable mantra ...the circumstances determine the best direction to point the muzzle. I usually carry muzzle down but am still aware of concrete or hard surfaces or if there are dogs underfoot and etc.

Alan

First law of gun safety - all guns are always loaded

Second law - never point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy

Third law - always make sure of your target and more importantly whats behind the target

Fourth Law - Only put you finger on or near the trigger when No 3 is confirmed.



And to be totally safe you only need to remember and apply the First and Second law.

 

[ChesterP]

As above, muzzle awareness is everything. It's hard enough for newcomers to remember everything and all too easy to get confused by muzzle up/down, in or out of a slip etc etc....just using common sense and muzzle awareness at all times gets, or should get you to the right way of doing things. I rarely, if ever carry a rifle muzzle down, especially if loaded. The risk of a discharge, for whatever reason (negligence or not) ricocheting and causing injury is too high, especially over hard ground. That's my reasoning anyway plus I prefer longer barrels, weight penalty or not, so the risk of scraping and damaging a mod or barrel is also too high.

I always carry a rifle muzzle up for those reasons, ensuring that the muzzle is up and not slipping back to a dangerous slant, as I've seen numerous times when following others, their barrels slipping back an almost pointing at the person immediately behind them. When unloading, the rifle is pointed at the nearest backstop (ie it's always done before leaving the field and never when I get to the back of the car) and often, the mag is removed and stored at that point.

With shotguns, I carry barrels up (I rough shoot alone and am not with anyone else) as I find bringing the gun to the shoulder a lot quicker that way. It stays barrels up within the slip as well. I just make sure that I have a decent slip with decent zip and fastenings and have never in 35 years had a gun drop from the slip.

 

[JTO]

The Brady shotgun slips that I've had, have had straps, no zips. Straps can break! Barrels down always!

 

[Lever357]

Few!!! I thought this was going to be the "muzzles up or down in the cabinet" debate to stop oil seeping into woodwork debate that goes round the ususal forums every other week!!!!

 

[enfieldspares]

I was on a shoot on Saturday and noticed that every gun was carrying their gun barrel down!

There's a risk if walking single file with the gun broken over the crook of the arm of mud being kicked up by the boots of the person in front into your muzzles without you being aware of it. That said you should always in any case check the barrels are clear before loading once you reach your peg. Safest way between drives is, as others say, in a slip with barrels down. In past times you used to see a lot of guns carrying the gun over the crook of the arm with the action closed. There were some bad habits back then.

 

[FAHR451]

The muzzle regardless of type , whether pistol , shotgun or rifle should always point in a direction where it cannot be discharged accidentally and injure anyone . When shooting Police Pistol or Military disciplines the pistol is lowered to a point approximately 1 M in front of you regardless of type between the shooter and the target . Checked clear when carried by a third person , designated range officer.
When loading a shotgun and closing the action , the muzzle should point in the same spot as a pistol and the stock brought up to close the action , then safety on . When moving , the action broken and unloaded with muzzle down .With a rifle or semi automatic shotgun there is an exception in that if carried it should be shouldered with an adequate sling , muzzle pointing up ( do to length ) unloaded and not loaded until in a position to fire when the above procedure applies . There should be no one in front of the designated firing line . Checked by the range officer . Insert magazine with safety on pointing the muzzle one meter in front of you . Charging , then safety off keeping your finger outside the trigger guard until in a safe attitude to discharge the firearm . If stalking or on active patrol the rifle/ shotgun should be shouldered with muzzle down , a round chambered , safety on ,finger outside the trigger guard , choosing a path where the muzzle cannot be fouled .
If you were caught carrying a rifle muzzle down in the military in any other situation than on patrol ( this is the traditional mourning position ) or cleaning , you would have your arse kicked . A firearm is never 'unloaded' until it is checked and cleared by the appointed range officer on the shoot .

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Surely if you do it this way, are you not bringing a loaded gun up past the beaters?

I'm only a beginner so welcome any tips.

I do this
With the barrels pointed at the floor load two cartridges and lift the stock to the barrels.
If there’s a risk of beaters being within shot should the gun go off. You simply turn your back to them. Check for pickers up etc then raise the gun to barrels up. Whilst keeping fingers away from triggers turn to face the drive. Problem solved at no time should you be pointing the gun at any beater or other person.
I take a similar muzzle straight up and turn when taking a shot behind, yes you have to remount the gun but that’s far better than an injury or worse.