BASC Council Elections

[Krico308]

Tozzybum,

The correct derivation is Poly = Many, Tics = small bloodsucking insects.

Simples!

 

[Dalua]

...but I would not vote for him because of his stance against hunting even though I do not hunt.

This is exactly my position also.

 

[KBar1970]

My attitude towards hunting is that every horse involved has two ars*holes, one atop the other normally placed but I support them fully in what they are doing and any politician of any party who wants to remove this legitimate country sport will not get my vote!!!

You do know that you can always hunt without a horse, but you can never hunt without HOUNDS

 

[NeilG]

A lot of SD members will be BASC members and will be aware that the BASC Council elections are coming up shortly.

One of the candidates is Martyn Jones, the former Labour MP for Clwyd South, who when in Parliament voted strongly to ban hunting.

Here's a nice quote from Mr. Jones (2008);

“Any move to reopen the issue of fox hunting is utterly ridiculous. The Act was only passed into law in 2005 and was widely debated. It is an act which signalled the end to a cruel and outmoded form of upper class enjoyment."

Leaving aside any particular views on hunting with hounds, it does rather suggest that Mr. Jones is not afraid to use the class based rhetoric so beloved of shooting's opponents. He must get on well with George Monbiot!

I would urge any BASC members who think that Mr. Jones' views on hunting make him an unacceptable candidate to use their vote wisely and to make sure that their fellow BASC members know of Mr. Jones' stance.

You can vote online here by the way...

You just can`t make this stuff up really.... Below is a extract from his 2014 BASC Election `biography` :-

I am mainly a target and clay pigeon shooter, and I can bring my knowledge and experience of those sports to the table. Having seen our sport being eroded by the antis over the years, and now that I am retired, I would like to use the expertise I have in achieving political and public relations results to help BASC in its sterling efforts to stem and reverse the tide against all the various aspects of our sport. An attack on one is an attack on all.

Just goes to show that the so called `Right Honourable` element of our establishement will just about say anything, ( shock horror ) even blatant lies to get a position of `power`..... they just cannot help themselves. To claim that he will stand up against antis, is one thing, but to openly say he will defend ALL field sports - even hunting with hounds, based on his 2008 quote above is utter crap....... Trojan horse springs to mind...

Anyway he had NOT got my vote.

All the best.

Neil.

 

[sauer]

Anyone thought to email him as a candidate & explain his stance now and quantify against his previous statement?
im not a basc member otherwise I would be asking why?

paul

 

[paul o']

he's not worth the time or the hard drive space !!

 

[Sinistral]

I think he also voted to ban pistols both big and the later .22 ban.

David.

I see the pack are in full hue and cry, but don't know the nature of what they're pursuing.

The vote for the Hunting Act 2004 was a free vote .... 339 FOR - 155 AGAINST.... so overwhelmingly in favour. I approve of the result, and if I was a BASC Member I'd vote for him.
The critical and decisive vote (on the 3rd Reading) was 15th September 2004, and Martyn Jones did not vote.

http://www.publications.parliament....vo040915/debtext/40915-49.htm#40915-49_div253

Martyn Jones has harried, and harassed the Govt on many shooting and firearms issues. You can read his Parliamentary Questions Year by Year below ......... if anyone can be bothered.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/people/mr-martyn-jones/

Neither foxhunting with hounds or handgun shooting is coming back, so everyone just has to live with this reality.

 

[6pointer]

I agree they are not coming back but do we need to loose more.

 

[Tom_Ov]

I see the pack are in full hue and cry, but don't know the nature of what they're pursuing.

The vote for the Hunting Act 2004 was a free vote .... 339 FOR - 155 AGAINST.... so overwhelmingly in favour. I approve of the result, and if I was a BASC Member I'd vote for him.
The critical and decisive vote (on the 3rd Reading) was 15th September 2004, and Martyn Jones did not vote.

http://www.publications.parliament....vo040915/debtext/40915-49.htm#40915-49_div253

Martyn Jones has harried, and harassed the Govt on many shooting and firearms issues. You can read his Parliamentary Questions Year by Year below ......... if anyone can be bothered.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/people/mr-martyn-jones/

Neither foxhunting with hounds or handgun shooting is coming back, so everyone just has to live with this reality.

Sinistral

I know exactly the argument I am making. Your suggestion that Mr. Jones did not participate in the final vote to ban hunting with hounds is correct - he was absent from the chamber that day. However, he voted in favour of a ban in every vote prior to that. See the screenshot below from 'They work for you'.



(More here - http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10324/martyn_jones/clwyd_south/votes ).

Nor does there seem to be any dispute over the fact that Mr. Jones said;

“Any move to reopen the issue of fox hunting is utterly ridiculous. The Act was only passed into law in 2005 and was widely debated. It is an act which signalled the end to a cruel and outmoded form of upper class enjoyment."

As I said in my opening post, leaving aside any particular views on hunting with hounds, the latter part of this statement really draws Mr. Jones reasoning into question for me. Is it only OK to enjoy shooting of any kind if you aren't upper class? Shall we put an earnings cap on entry to the sport so you can only play if you don't earn more than a certain amount? Silly points maybe, but I don't think that I can have confidence in Mr Jones arguing credibly against the class based rhetoric of many of shooting's opponents given the above.

And, like a lot of other posters on the thread, I think fieldsports are stronger when they speak with one voice. Nor would I legislate to ban another activity simply on the basis that I don't like or understand it ( I won't get into JS Mill, On Liberty and the right of the state to control an individual but I commend it as an interesting, if rather dry, read).

 

[timbrayford]

I am quite appalled that this man is even allowed to be a member of BASC, let alone stand for office.

Are there no safeguards in place to prevent BASC being hijacked by antis?

I had hoped that all this " blow you, I'm all right Jack" attitude displayed by officers of BASC towards our fellow hunters had disappeared along with the dreadful Jonathan Swift, who many of you might remember praised Alun Michael for his Hunting Act!

I look forward to someone from BASC HQ commenting on this.

atb Tim

 

[scubadog]

The same chap also seems proud of the fact he "chose not to vote" either way on the handgun ban!
That whilst being the chairman British Shooting Sports Council.

What exactly is to be proud of not voting - should have grown some balls and actually voted for the people you represent!

As a result he wont be getting into BASC council know enough people are aware of his past doings that I am sure!

 

[Sinistral]

Thanks, Tom.

I know you were quoting from TWFY as a source. I saw this myself, but it's a distortion of the truth. This wasn't a class issue (to MJ) but more an issue of animal welfare. That's what I read from his remarks.

All the national polls seem to back the continuance of the ban. David Cameron has admitted that he cannot command a majority for repeal (or circumvent it by arbitrarily increasing the number of 'flushing' hounds .... which was another idea).Many of the newer Tory MP's are opposed to foxhunting, or perhaps can't be a*sed..

I don't buy the idea that slavish solidarity strengthens any cause..... in fact it weakens it. MP's are there to represent us, but are entitled to opinions of their own particularly on matters of conscience.

No-one so far has mentioned his other good deeds on the firearms/shooting front .... from the Hansard links posted?

 

[Sinistral]

Sinistral

I know exactly the argument I am making. Your suggestion that Mr. Jones did not participate in the final vote to ban hunting with hounds is correct - he was absent from the chamber that day. However, he voted in favour of a ban in every vote prior to that. See the screenshot below from 'They work for you'.

(More here - http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/103...yd_south/votes ).

Nor does there seem to be any dispute over the fact that Mr. Jones said;

“Any move to reopen the issue of fox hunting is utterly ridiculous. The Act was only passed into law in 2005 and was widely debated. It is an act which signalled the end to a cruel and outmoded form of upper class enjoyment."

As I said in my opening post, leaving aside any particular views on hunting with hounds, the latter part of this statement really draws Mr. Jones reasoning into question for me. Is it only OK to enjoy shooting of any kind if you aren't upper class? Shall we put an earnings cap on entry to the sport so you can only play if you don't earn more than a certain amount? Silly points maybe, but I don't think that I can have confidence in Mr Jones arguing credibly against the class based rhetoric of many of shooting's opponents given the above.

And, like a lot of other posters on the thread, I think fieldsports are stronger when they speak with one voice. Nor would I legislate to ban another activity simply on the basis that I don't like or understand it ( I won't get into JS Mill, On Liberty and the right of the state to control an individual but I commend it as an interesting, if rather dry, read).

Sorry - forgot link

 

[long_range_rob]

Vote for the people you represent!

Now that would be a first! Career politician is an oxymoron.

 

[scubadog]

Go on, perhaps you can enlighten us of any good deeds he has done!

Thanks, Tom.

I know you were quoting from TWFY as a source. I saw this myself, but it's a distortion of the truth. This wasn't a class issue (to MJ) but more an issue of animal welfare. That's what I read from his remarks.

All the national polls seem to back the continuance of the ban. David Cameron has admitted that he cannot command a majority for repeal (or circumvent it by arbitrarily increasing the number of 'flushing' hounds .... which was another idea).Many of the newer Tory MP's are opposed to foxhunting, or perhaps can't be a*sed..

I don't buy the idea that slavish solidarity strengthens any cause..... in fact it weakens it. MP's are there to represent us, but are entitled to opinions of their own particularly on matters of conscience.

No-one so far has mentioned his other good deeds on the firearms/shooting front .... from the Hansard links posted?

 

[Bandit Country]

I look forward to someone from BASC HQ commenting on this. atb Tim

Don't hold your breath, Tim. TBF they're hardly in a position to comment when in the middle of an election. If you're a member you might like to hold the thought and ask a direct question to the Chief Exec the second that polling stops.

 

[Tom_Ov]

Thanks Sinistral

Thanks, Tom.

I know you were quoting from TWFY as a source. I saw this myself, but it's a distortion of the truth. This wasn't a class issue (to MJ) but more an issue of animal welfare. That's what I read from his remarks.

I'm not sure which bit exactly you think is a distortion of the truth. Martyn Jones voted strongly in support of a ban on hunting with hounds. He may well think there are animal welfare concerns associated with the activity but unfortunately for him, his lasting contribution to the debate is a somewhat ill advised, cheap and vindictive comment which reeks of the class warfare that clouded the entire issue, took animal welfare out of centre stage and left us with the unsatisfactory legislation that we now have.

All the national polls seem to back the continuance of the ban. David Cameron has admitted that he cannot command a majority for repeal (or circumvent it by arbitrarily increasing the number of 'flushing' hounds .... which was another idea).Many of the newer Tory MP's are opposed to foxhunting, or perhaps can't be a*sed..

Most polls on the issue over the last twenty years (or at least those that have been carried out with any modicum of impartiality, which isn't many!) show that between 20 and 30% of the public wouldn't vote to ban hunting. That's a fairly sizable minority whichever way you look at it. Not wishing to go back to JS Mill but I seem to remember something about protecting minorities whose actions aren't harming anyone else from the tyranny of the majority. Personally I'm quite happy to come to my own conclusions on whether my actions (if they aren't harming anyone else) are acceptable. That's my view when it comes to shooting deer anyway... This is all rather by the by anyway - I can't see how whether repeal of the Hunting Act is likely or not affects Martyn Jones' suitability to stand for BASC Council.

I don't buy the idea that slavish solidarity strengthens any cause..... in fact it weakens it. MP's are there to represent us, but are entitled to opinions of their own particularly on matters of conscience.

I rather tend to agree with you on that as a matter of principle actually. However, pragmatically, many of the attacks on shooting come from the same quarters as those on hunting with hounds and are often motivated by some kind of class based hatred. Given his previous remarks, I don't think Mr. Jones is best placed to deal with attacks of this type credibly. Moreover, I cannot personally see how someone who is so strongly opposed to hunting with hounds can really defend shooting live quarry - if you strip away all the ******** (tosh)about toffs on red coats, from a welfare perspective there is often little difference between the two activities. (We may have to agree to disagree on this latter point as I don't particularly wish to derail this thread and I haven't really got time to engage in a fuller debate. Maybe over a pint some time )

I do also think that to a certain extent we will all hang separately if we don't stand together. I've never shot driven game and there are some aspects of large scale pheasant shoots that make me somewhat uneasy. However, I'm prepared to accept that others do enjoy it, are capable of making their own minds up about what sits comfortably with them and I will support their right to carry out a lawful activity, while challenging those aspects that I am less comfortable with.

 

[KBar1970]

If it's morally wrong to kill a fox with a pack of Hounds it's morally wrong to kill a pheasant with a shotgun.

Seven HUNDRED hours of debate went in to deciding it was legal for Hounds to hunt a rabbit but not a hare, a rat but not a mouse. The Hunting Act was used as class-based polemic, a bone to appease Labour's backbenchers, to support Blair with his local issues concerning Stephen Byers and his lying.

Why would Dennis Skinner have shouted 'This is for the miners' when the Parliament Act was [inappropriately] used to railroad the Hunting Act through, even though it was rejected by peers from both sides?

SEVENTY hours of debate was all it took to go to war in Iraq.

 

[Graham M]

I'm afraid gentlemen this is nothing new. Paul Dale joined BASC in January 2013 and is a former firearms licensing manager and explosives liaison officer for Staffordshire and West Midlands.
Whilst in those positions he was unapologetically obnoxious and obstructive towards firearms owners, and many of us were glad to see the back of him.




This didn't stop BASC hiring him as one of their “Firearms Officers” who is there to HELP their members fight against police harassment.


I dare say Martyn Jones will do just as well.


G.M.

 

[timbrayford]

Anyone know the result of the BASC Council elections?

atb Tim