BASC opposes new proposals for medical fees

[kes]

I wrote to my MP over the Scandal of charges and the MWG I posted his response which missed the mark in my opinion so I wrote again with all the detail at my disposal and Bless him David Davies has done me proud - He wrote copying my letter to N Hurd saying this (I only have the hardcopy from David.
Dear Nick
Re Firearms licensing
I have received the attached e-mail from a constituent (he gives my name and address). As you will see he lists his concernsat the new proposals for medical chargesfor firearms licensing, in detail and treatment of British gun users in general. You will note from mr X 's comments that gun users are overwhelmingly the most law -abiding of individuals.
I will be grateful if you will respond to the issues Mr X is raising and let me know the background to the governments proposals so I may consider how to respond to his concerns,
Yours ....
David has justified my vote next time round provided he keeps this up. I'd like to know what BASC are doing if I can get my MP to write to the Min of State for policing and fire

 

[User00025]

Well done Kes, I'm not sure of what my MP (Nick Boles) will say as he represents part of Lincolnshire and I didn't go a bundle on the last reply I got from him concerning Brexit Fee. At least you got action from yours, I will see what fruit my letter produces.

 

[CharlieT]

I wrote to my MP over the Scandal of charges and the MWG I posted his response which missed the mark in my opinion so I wrote again with all the detail at my disposal and Bless him David Davies has done me proud - He wrote copying my letter to N Hurd saying this (I only have the hardcopy from David.
Dear Nick
Re Firearms licensing
I have received the attached e-mail from a constituent (he gives my name and address). As you will see he lists his concernsat the new proposals for medical chargesfor firearms licensing, in detail and treatment of British gun users in general. You will note from mr X 's comments that gun users are overwhelmingly the most law -abiding of individuals.
I will be grateful if you will respond to the issues Mr X is raising and let me know the background to the governments proposals so I may consider how to respond to his concerns,
Yours ....
David has justified my vote next time round provided he keeps this up. I'd like to know what BASC are doing if I can get my MP to write to the Min of State for policing and fire

As did I. My MP wrote to Amber Rudd on my behalf requesting a written reply. Mrs Rudd passed it to the said Minister for reply. The Ministers reply, which I forwarded to the CA, failed to fully address my questions, the crux of his reply being that he was speaking to stakeholders on the issue. Make of that what you will.

 

[Rory]

I wrote to mine on the issue - received a generic "how licensing works" reply. In the interim, the Lincolnshire debacle was revealed on 4th April (Horncastle News article) and the proposal reference banning offensive weapons. I have written to my MP again highlighting these and I'm now awaiting his reply.

 

[kes]

Any legal advice been received by BASC yet? Any members from LIncolnshire contacted BASC re mandatory chargng for medicals. Anything at all happening ? I presume BASC has not managed to have the MWG reconvened?

 

[User00025]

Any legal advice been received by BASC yet? Any members from LIncolnshire contacted BASC re mandatory chargng for medicals. Anything at all happening ? I presume BASC has not managed to have the MWG reconvened?

3 Years before I renew Kes. It will probably be sorted by then (Not by BASC) and spoil a good legal fight which my bloke seems to be itching for, and not for the financial aspect either.

 

[kes]

3 Years before I renew Kes. It will probably be sorted by then (Not by BASC) and spoil a good legal fight which my bloke seems to be itching for, and not for the financial aspect either.

I wont renew this time simply because of inactivity and couldn't seemingly care less attitude.
No response to repeated questions - I begin to think that even with such a 'gift' BASC cant make the difference. I'll see what CA do first then consider CA or NGO.
Sad really after so many problems BASC does seem incapable of doing much.

 

[75]

Update today on the BASC website. https://basc.org.uk/blog/uncategorized/tell-us-about-medical-involvement-issues-basc-urges-members/

 

[User00025]

Almost as clear as Mud !!!!

 

[kes]

There is very little point to this press release and its typical of BASC's -' we really are doing something- honestly' . This does not advance the legal case (for which we still have no definitive comment), nor does it oppose the proposed changes - so BASC have accepted payment for a medical and are going for a standardised fee.
If anyone can call this pathetic response the 'Voice of Shooting' then they would be better off saying nothing. Re-read it and see the hole through which these proposed changes, without ANY consultation can be advanced by BASC's attitude.
Let us hope CA gets this opportunity right and the HO by the >>>>>>.
By this press release they are hoping to keep 'on-side' those who dont question too closely to protect the subs - because most dont question and believe the hype.

Mr Dale - "[FONT=&amp]Paul Dale, a former firearms licensing manager for Staffordshire and West Midlands Police, has joined the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), to strengthen the firearms team and provide expert advice to members."
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Paul Dale, BASC’s firearms team manager, (now)[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

Lets hope the poacher has truly become the gamekeeper and has sufficient backbone to tackle his ex-mates, maybe he'll need some legal advice though ?[/FONT]

 

[zambezi]

I rang the BASC firearms team the other day to get an answer from the horse's mouth as it were. It was both refreshing and disappointing: BASC cannot ultimately resist the move to a paid-for medical. Our best hope, I was told, is that the FLD broker a fee at circa £40 and that then becomes the template rate GPs would charge FAC holders going forward. More candour re current issues where police forces are breaching existing guidelines: there is unlikely to be benefit in investing huge resources fighting those cases as the revised guidelines are likely to embrace the concept of a fee and will be with us before any legal action came to fruition. So I agree with Kes that the BASC posting above is a placatory and hollow Chamberlainesque hanky wave.

The chap I spoke to was amiable, even, reasoned. He too is a FAC holder. He is as unhappy as we all are but admits BASC cannot materially change the outcome.

Which does beg the point: if the govt does not listen to BASC on this matter, on the wording of the dangerous arms regulation, etc, then why pay the subs? It is a genuine question: I can get the same Toyota/Nissan/Isuzu discount via my MoleValley farmer membership, firearm insurance can be sourced elsewhere, etc. And I would probably still have change.

 

[Pine Marten]

Which does beg the point: if the govt does not listen to BASC on this matter, on the wording of the dangerous arms regulation, etc, then why pay the subs? It is a genuine question: I can get the same Toyota/Nissan/Isuzu discount via my MoleValley farmer membership, firearm insurance can be sourced elsewhere, etc. And I would probably still have change.

My thinking is that if BASC doesn't have our support, it definitely can't have any impact. If it does have support and means, perhaps it can make a difference. Insurance and so on are a sunken cost anyway, so it costs me nothing more to buy it from BASC. So perhaps the additional cost of supporting BASC is useless, perhaps it isn't, but at least I've tried. And that's worth something to me.

 

[jimbo1984]

My thinking is that if BASC doesn't have our support, it definitely can't have any impact. If it does have support and means, perhaps it can make a difference. Insurance and so on are a sunken cost anyway, so it costs me nothing more to buy it from BASC. So perhaps the additional cost of supporting BASC is useless, perhaps it isn't, but at least I've tried. And that's worth something to me.

It's not that they can't make a difference more the complete lack of interest in making a difference that's the problem

 

[slider]

I have received a helpful response following contact with my MPS. This is copied below, I havnt copied the letter she sent to the Cabinet Secretary but it fully supports my claims of unfairness.

Dear Mr xxxxx



I have discussed your letter in detail with Claudia. I have also done a bit of research of my own which appears to show that the issues you have raised are indeed relevant and ongoing.



I have spoken to several GP practices and Police forces around the UK in order to do this.



Claudia has taken the decision to write to Shona Robison the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport, regarding these issues to gain some clarity on what the current rules are and also to ask that she takes action on the matters you have raised. I must point out however that Claudia does not feel that GP’s should be made to complete these forms if they are conscientious objectors. Claudia does think that it should be possible to put procedures in place that allow a particular GP to opt out which still allows the applicant to proceed without needing to register at another GP.



I have attached the letter for your information. I hope to be in touch soon with a further update. Please note the Scottish Government have 21 working days to respond to us under normal circumstances.

 

[zambezi]

It's not that they can't make a difference more the complete lack of interest in making a difference that's the problem

Whilst I want Pine Marten's argument to be valid, kes and jimbo1984's empirical observation looks truer. Take a look at the wording of section 1.2 of the BASC response to the Offensive Weapons Bill:

"...BASC confidently predicts that this will be perceived by the shooting community as government hostility towards it."

Is it just me or does that sound like teacher's pet deriding their classmates' disagreement of teacher's edict? Where is the foot first positive affirmation? My version of that line: "The language and terms used in this bill are too loose and are subject to misinterpretation. Our law-abiding membership and the wider public demand better".

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/RESPONSE-TO-OFFENSIVE-WEAPONS-CONSULTATION-1.pdf

 

[JTO]

After I got a caution, that I wouldn't sign for, after a known horsey troublemaker reckoned I followed too close when she was leading her horse, I started an 8-year stint of not giving the police any information. If the GPs start charging for something they should be doing anyway, ie notifying plod if we are not suitable to own firearms, I can see a lot of us clogging up surgeries with appointments that could be avoided by going to a chemist.

 

[Kalahari]

In the words of Sir Humphrey I think we should congratulate the GPs for their very courageous decision to charge the way they have. The charge means they are declaring a level of expertise so if one of their patients does a Derek Bird they will be responsible rather than the relevant police force! Well played Chief Constables everywhere for getting out from under!

David.

 

[kes]

Whilst I want Pine Marten's argument to be valid, kes and jimbo1984's empirical observation looks truer. Take a look at the wording of section 1.2 of the BASC response to the Offensive Weapons Bill:

"...BASC confidently predicts that this will be perceived by the shooting community as government hostility towards it."

Is it just me or does that sound like teacher's pet deriding their classmates' disagreement of teacher's edict? Where is the foot first positive affirmation? My version of that line: "The language and terms used in this bill are too loose and are subject to misinterpretation. Our law-abiding membership and the wider public demand better".

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/RESPONSE-TO-OFFENSIVE-WEAPONS-CONSULTATION-1.pdf

If you read what is said they do NOT raise any objection to a fee. This is the nub of the problem if we look at our posts - nobody objects to medical info being scrutinised but do object to being asked to pay for it where no such payment exists. They tried it in Scotland, Durham, Lincolnshire and South Yorkshire. BASC have done NOTHING. They now say its difficult for them to resist the change - they havent ******* tried too. We all wanted an organisation which backed us, knew what we wanted and could reasonably expect and BASC have failed entirely to live up to this expectation. How can BASC claim to be the voice of shooting ?
I am very sad that even if they could achieve something it might be worth supporting them or another organisation but why continue to reinforce failure ? They cant even manage themselves properly.
I'm sorry Kalahari but the writing is very clear for anyone who wants to look BASC doesnt work. I admire your attempt to change it from the inside but its so dyed in the wool, you will be a lone voice.
Pathetic response - I simply dont want to hear any more about BASC, es[ecially from them.

 

[Greymaster]

There is very little point to this press release and its typical of BASC's -' we really are doing something- honestly' . This does not advance the legal case (for which we still have no definitive comment), nor does it oppose the proposed changes - so BASC have accepted payment for a medical and are going for a standardised fee.
If anyone can call this pathetic response the 'Voice of Shooting' then they would be better off saying nothing. Re-read it and see the hole through which these proposed changes, without ANY consultation can be advanced by BASC's attitude.
Let us hope CA gets this opportunity right and the HO by the >>>>>>.
By this press release they are hoping to keep 'on-side' those who dont question too closely to protect the subs - because most dont question and believe the hype.

Mr Dale - "Paul Dale, a former firearms licensing manager for Staffordshire and West Midlands Police, has joined the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC), to strengthen the firearms team and provide expert advice to members."
Paul Dale, BASC’s firearms team manager, (now)

Lets hope the poacher has truly become the gamekeeper and has sufficient backbone to tackle his ex-mates, maybe he'll need some legal advice though ?

There are simply too many ex-coppers in the employ of BASC. Is there really any wonder that BASC will not take the several police forces on with so many ex-plod employees. They have convinced themselves that they are buying expertise, but it is the membership being sold down the river by a cadre of ex-plod undermining the necessary resolve to take on the police chiefs.

 

[kes]

There are simply too many ex-coppers in the employ of BASC. Is there really any wonder that BASC will not take the several police forces on with so many ex-plod employees. They have convinced themselves that they are buying expertise, but it is the membership being sold down the river by a cadre of ex-plod undermining the necessary resolve to take on the police chiefs.

I agree and, from common experience, the idea of linking 'firearms licensing manager' and 'provide expert advice for members' is indicative, as you say of a less than rigorous approach by BASC. It is to be hoped he doesn't threaten to kill any members, like the recent and infamous NW ex-force member. The hype in post 282 above however, is typical and vacuous.