BASC podcast - night shooting - episode 63

Conor O'Gorman

Well-Known Member
In this episode, the podcast guests discuss the vital role night shooting plays in wildlife management and conservation. The interviews and discussions cover safety, legal considerations and the essential equipment used by those working in the field.

 
@Conor O'Gorman I haven’t yet listened to the podcast, but I fundamentally disagree that night shooting of deer should be seen as “normal” practice for sustainable deer management.

It’s being thrust upon us by the rewilding authorities that want all deer eliminated from the landscape. That’s not conservation, that’s species eradication.

BASC should be promoting sustainable management, and if particular land management cannot get their deer numbers under control we should be looking at alternatives such as getting more hunters onto the land. Indeed lets use some of the techniques used overseas. Rather than driven pheasant shooting we should start looking at driven deer whereby a large cull can be achieved by a team of guns in one or two days, rather than continuing harassing deer at night and driving them ever deeper into the woods, onto roads or into towns and villages.

Yes it would require training and organisation, but many British stalkers have the skills from shooting abroad, and the skills can be learned and developed. It just needs a change in mindset.

And given deer’s ability to breed naturally and not needing the cost of rearing, releasing, feeding phaesant / partridges etc i would suggest that driven deer would be a lot more affordable to the hunters, whilst at the same time providing a good income for estates from venison and hunting fees.

It’s easy enough to make your hunters very selective in what they shoot - either by instruction or by the wallet or combination of both.
 
@Conor O'Gorman I haven’t yet listened to the podcast, but I fundamentally disagree that night shooting of deer should be seen as “normal” practice for sustainable deer management.

It’s being thrust upon us by the rewilding authorities that want all deer eliminated from the landscape. That’s not conservation, that’s species eradication.
May I ask how you would propose managing the culling of a large herd of Red deer coming into a farmer's fodder crop after dark and leaving before daylight from the adjacent land?

A night licence would resolve the issue for the farmer, and certainly not foisted upon him by rewilding authorities in this circumstance.
 
May I ask how you would propose managing the culling of a large herd of Red deer coming into a farmer's fodder crop after dark and leaving before daylight from the adjacent land?

A night licence would resolve the issue for the farmer, and certainly not foisted upon him by rewilding authorities in this circumstance.
I would suggest that the large herd of red deer coming into a farmers field is doing so because they are being pushed into that low ground by all the continuous day and night shooting going on in all the neighbouring woods and rewilding areas by contractors all being funded by Scottish Government monies. The farmers fodder crop is the last place where they can feed in peace.

In your case the night shooting licence is simply going to push those deer elsewhere.
 
I would suggest that the large herd of red deer coming into a farmers field is doing so because they are being pushed into that low ground by all the continuous day and night shooting going on in all the neighbouring woods by contractors all being funded by Scottish Government monies. The farmers fodder crop is the last place where they can feed in peace.
Not at all. It is all low ground around the area.

The leaseholder on the Scottish Woodlands land next door could shoot them at last and first light easily but I've only seen a stalker there once in 6 years. The fodder crop is a great lure for the Reds to come into every year and they do so after last light. It's very frustrating for the farmer and syndicate members. A night licence would resolve the issue.
 
Not at all. It is all low ground around the area.

The leaseholder on the Scottish Woodlands land next door could shoot them at last and first light easily but I've only seen a stalker there once in 6 years. The fodder crop is a great lure for the Reds to come into every year and they do so after last light. It's very frustrating for the farmer and syndicate members. A night licence would resolve the issue.
This is exactly a case of where joined up thinking and communication is required - the problem is the Scottish Woodlands management not the deer per se. Night licence should be used as a last resort, not as the primary means of managing a problem.

In many parts of the world, hunters take responsibility for maintaining a healthy balance of animals. Part of this is keeping them away from farmers crops. Indeed if the animals cause damage, then the hunters will pay compensation.
 
This is exactly a case of where joined up thinking and communication is required - the problem is the Scottish Woodlands management not the deer per se. Night licence should be used as a last resort, not as the primary means of managing a problem
That always helps of course, but telling my neighbouring stalker he needs to shoot more deer probably wouldn't be received that well. Scottish Woodland reviewing the state of their re-plant will be the only thing that will change the lease-holder's approach, or more likely the lease-holder.

The only alternative to a night licence would be me or someone more suitable than the current SW lease-holder taking over the SW lease and heading the problem off at the pass! Its a tad frustrating watching a group of 30 reds walk a mile along the boundary and hop over into the crop after dark when they could be taken out during that last light walk in across the boundary.

A night licence is the last resort in this case for my farmer. He is trying to improve his farm/livestock by planting fodder crops for his twin-lamb ewes to eat in February post-scanning, the Reds decimate it from around mid-September and he ends up just putting some sheep in it in October-November when he sees, once again, the impact from the deer.
 
That always helps of course, but telling my neighbouring stalker he needs to shoot more deer probably wouldn't be received that well. Scottish Woodland reviewing the state of their re-plant will be the only thing that will change the lease-holder's approach, or more likely the lease-holder.

The only alternative to a night licence would be me or someone more suitable than the current SW lease-holder taking over the SW lease and heading the problem off at the pass! Its a tad frustrating watching a group of 30 reds walk a mile along the boundary and hop over into the crop after dark when they could be taken out during that last light walk in across the boundary.

A night licence is the last resort in this case for my farmer. He is trying to improve his farm/livestock by planting fodder crops for his twin-lamb ewes to eat in February post-scanning, the Reds decimate it from around mid-September and he ends up just putting some sheep in it in October-November when he sees, once again, the impact from the deer.
Sounds like you should have a conversation with your neighbour Scottish Woodlands. It seems like an issue that has been going on for years.
 
Sounds like you should have a conversation with your neighbour Scottish Woodlands. It seems like an issue that has been going on for years.
Spoke with SW but nothing they will do unless replant damage evidenced. Contact details notes should current leaseholder give it up!!

Issue is new due to vast increase in Red numbers in the area in last few years, but needs resolved!
 
@Conor O'Gorman I haven’t yet listened to the podcast, but I fundamentally disagree that night shooting of deer should be seen as “normal” practice for sustainable deer management.

It’s being thrust upon us by the rewilding authorities that want all deer eliminated from the landscape. That’s not conservation, that’s species eradication.

BASC should be promoting sustainable management, and if particular land management cannot get their deer numbers under control we should be looking at alternatives such as getting more hunters onto the land. Indeed lets use some of the techniques used overseas. Rather than driven pheasant shooting we should start looking at driven deer whereby a large cull can be achieved by a team of guns in one or two days, rather than continuing harassing deer at night and driving them ever deeper into the woods, onto roads or into towns and villages.

Yes it would require training and organisation, but many British stalkers have the skills from shooting abroad, and the skills can be learned and developed. It just needs a change in mindset.

And given deer’s ability to breed naturally and not needing the cost of rearing, releasing, feeding phaesant / partridges etc i would suggest that driven deer would be a lot more affordable to the hunters, whilst at the same time providing a good income for estates from venison and hunting fees.

It’s easy enough to make your hunters very selective in what they shoot - either by instruction or by the wallet or combination of both.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish "again" the established fox shooters have good kit and the experience to deal with night shooting of deer. The times we come across deer in season or muntjac is on the increase also with the transient fallow shoot a couple in "daylight" and they all leg it after the second one falls and go back into the woods or cross a road.
Stop comparing overseas shooting with what we have here as they blow stupid trumpet's/horns and put a small branch in the deer's mouth :doh:
Get A Grip
 
Rubbish, absolute rubbish "again" the established fox shooters have good kit and the experience to deal with night shooting of deer. The times we come across deer in season or muntjac is on the increase also with the transient fallow shoot a couple in "daylight" and they all leg it after the second one falls and go back into the woods or cross a road.
Stop comparing overseas shooting with what we have here as they blow stupid trumpet's/horns and put a small branch in the deer's mouth :doh:
Get A Grip

Trumpet and horn blowing is all part of their tradition
Wish we still upheld many of ours !:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:
 
Ahhhhh the old night shooting debate is old hat!

The deeper issue is - why are deer the problem or is it that the population Of this little island expanding that we are pushing the deer into more confined places?

You walk or drive in any town you will now see houses being built on flood planes on farmland that used to have restrictions put on it all because of people and population explosion!

Years ago those houses would never have been allowed to be built but you have two weeks of hard rain come along all those houses will be underwater because the infrastructure is not there to sustain the water levels, but Hell what do I know?

I don’t think, deer are the problem. I think the deep down problem is they are now in the way of people!

If the night shooting of deer becomes legal, you may as well leave them where they lie because the price will be worthless even more than it is now, and even more than the damage thermal has done, the price has dropped £.50 per kilo at least since thermal came out do the mass for all you carcass bankers
 
they blow stupid trumpet's/horns and put a small branch in the deer's mouth :doh:
Get A Grip
stop talking like tw@t Tim!

That is tradition and is something that is greatly needed and missed in this country!

Maybe if more people show respect for what they shot instead of just whacking and stacking we would have a better and more understanding network of stalkers in this country!

The tradition of the hunting horns on the continent is enough to put the heads up on the back of your neck, and when you stand on a drive hunt with probably 100 other hunters all part of one network of people to do a job then you realise how small or cog you really are.

Also no matter how big or small the hunt is the Horns are there and played.
 
No it wouldn’t all it
May I ask how you would propose managing the culling of a large herd of Red deer coming into a farmer's fodder crop after dark and leaving before daylight from the adjacent land?

A night licence would resolve the issue for the farmer, and certainly not foisted upon him by rewilding authorities in this circumstance.
would do is make them more savvy and put them off, then they would come at a time then you are no there!

The herd might suffer two or three casualties and then it will become bloody hard work because they will just come in when you’re not there. They are far from stupid that I will assure you.
 
Chris Rogers mentioned something on his latest youtube show about changes to night licenses for deer.
I have not seen the show, but that might have been to do with Scotland in 2023?

  • The use of any ‘sight of any type including light-intensifying, heat-sensitive or other special sighting device for night shooting’ is now allowed under the Firearms Order (effective from 3 November 2023). Note that these sights can also be used in daytime and includes the use of thermal imaging, night vision and digital sights. You must still apply for an authorisation to shoot deer at night.

 
No it wouldn’t all it

would do is make them more savvy and put them off, then they would come at a time then you are no there!

The herd might suffer two or three casualties and then it will become bloody hard work because they will just come in when you’re not there. They are far from stupid that I will assure you.
And through the use of wildlife cameras I would know what time I would need to be in place. Night licences cover all night.

Deer stalking isn’t rigid you know, you have to adapt to season, habit, weather, enforced movement etc…..

What would your solution be?
 
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