BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

[User00053]

I can see where we have conflict, you have those who love deer, love stalking bumbling around the woods at a crafty buck or doe.

I used to be like that about 16/17 years ago!

Then it consumes you and once it consumes you, you either let it and you get to where i am, semi professional juggling a day job and killing deer or you stay the recreational stalker just plodding about!

My advice is save your sanity and stay the plodder!

Not good for the deer but better for you!

Once you open that door and build a good reputation, doors open themselves and it becomes your life and in the end your love for stalking and deer vanishes and it becomes a job and the deer become figures and targets nothing more!

Thats the end of todays lesson

Never a truer word said, to much knowledge and the will to the job properly end in brain damage if not on even playing field. Do it as a job and it becomes just that just a job in the end and must be treated as such. Far better been a plodder but not in the nature of some. Edit, got me thinking of how many keeper/ stalkers in their late thirty’s early forties have said how they wished it was a hobby and cherry picked the good bits!

 

[Nikko]

Shooting young females is optimal, shooting males doesn't make a jot of difference to large scale population reduction

Agrred. But shooting a roe buck in winter on a newly planted restock after 6 inches snow would keep the forestry consultant happy!

 

[Nikko]

Ahhh section 7 pointless, too many gray areas to be prosecuted!

I would rather night shooting be legalised, in fact i want night shooting to be legalised!!

Agree

 

[StephenToast]

No, that's what has to be done in your area. Not everywhere. And responses to the consultation need to consider not only what needs to be done in hot-spot areas like yours, but also what needs to be done (if anything) elsewhere. The aim is to produce a management strategy, which no doubt will take account of regional variables.

But by not allowing night shooting because your area has fewer deer you are not considering the rest of the country, you are doing what you are accusing NDS of.

If night shooting is made legal it won't be compulsary for people to shoot deer at night, it will just let them choose to.

 

[VSS]

But by not allowing night shooting because your area has fewer deer you are not considering the rest of the country, you are doing what you are accusing NDS of.

If night shooting is made legal it won't be compulsary for people to shoot deer at night, it will just let them choose to.

Where are you getting the idea that I wouldn't be in favour of night shooting in areas where that would be appropriate? I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything to that effect in this thread.

 

[TomT3]

Been reading this thread with interest. I agree with everything Norfolk Deer search has said re herd species although feel it could be put across slightly more tactfully, I do appreciate it seems to be put across the way it is, due to the passion to do a good job though.

I have been trying to help out with a few fallow the last two seasons on a relatively small farm surrounded by woodlands which is where the fallow reside. 90% is high seat work and I can honestly say hand on heart I was out twice a week nearly all last season and only shot 4 fallow and missed one. 2 of which were shot in one sitting. The other chap on the ground shot about 8 or so. I reckon if I was quicker I could of shot another 3. This was morning seats and evening seats until the full hour after sunset. The usual proceedings applied with fallow. Mainly does and fawns emerging before November, come November we had a few but they almost reverted to coming out 5 minutes before last light so too dark or the inevitable 10 minutes after the hour as if a switch had been flicked.
There is no woodland to stalk on this ground just farmers fields that are trampled all season, numerous footpaths and walkers. I know the chaps who shoot the same deer in the surrounding areas who have a lot more than us and woodland to stalk. Although I’m sure not 100% of the ground is covered. I’ve still seen herds of 100 plus in front of me. A lot of the time out in the late afternoon on flat ground with no back stop or next to the farm yard etc.

I’m a relative amateur to deer stalking (6 years) (I’ve been been shooting/country pursuits 20plus years ) Im certainly not a professional and undertake it as a hobby for meat primarily and for the love of it. It is difficult to maintain the level of commitment with a young family and work commitments but still try my best on the little area I have been fortunate enough to shoot. I have roe and muntjac on other farms but the fallow are definitely difficult to get on top of. In reality I would say what I’ve shot over the last two years is nigh on insignificant. I have my own larder with two converted larder fridges and butcher all I shoot. I’ve not diverted to copper yet so am not taking to game dealers but I can see how the the whole process is so time consuming and potentially tiresome to some people lugging large beasts around and the constant butchery process that I’m not surprised recreational shooters cannot deliver the required cull targets in most areas. The job needs to be taken more seriously. I feel I put more effort in than a lot of recreational shooters.

Being traditional I would rather not shoot deer at night but can see with my own eyes how much more deer would be shot. It pains me to say but unless you’ve seen that amount of deer in front of you it’s hard to comprehend how much damage they do to the surrounding fauna and farmers livelihood. I’m constantly saying to one of my good farmer friends jusy be thankful you do not have fallow on here…yet!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Been reading this thread with interest. I agree with everything Norfolk Deer search has said re herd species although feel it could be put across slightly more tactfully, I do appreciate it seems to be put across the way it is, due to the passion to do a good job though.

I have been trying to help out with a few fallow the last two seasons on a relatively small farm surrounded by woodlands which is where the fallow reside. 90% is high seat work and I can honestly say hand on heart I was out twice a week nearly all last season and only shot 4 fallow and missed one. 2 of which were shot in one sitting. The other chap on the ground shot about 8 or so. I reckon if I was quicker I could of shot another 3. This was morning seats and evening seats until the full hour after sunset. The usual proceedings applied with fallow. Mainly does and fawns emerging before November, come November we had a few but they almost reverted to coming out 5 minutes before last light so too dark or the inevitable 10 minutes after the hour as if a switch had been flicked.
There is no woodland to stalk on this ground just farmers fields that are trampled all season, numerous footpaths and walkers. I know the chaps who shoot the same deer in the surrounding areas who have a lot more than us and woodland to stalk. Although I’m sure not 100% of the ground is covered. I’ve still seen herds of 100 plus in front of me. A lot of the time out in the late afternoon on flat ground with no back stop or next to the farm yard etc.

I’m a relative amateur to deer stalking (6 years) (I’ve been been shooting/country pursuits 20plus years ) Im certainly not a professional and undertake it as a hobby for meat primarily and for the love of it. It is difficult to maintain the level of commitment with a young family and work commitments but still try my best on the little area I have been fortunate enough to shoot. I have roe and muntjac on other farms but the fallow are definitely difficult to get on top of. In reality I would say what I’ve shot over the last two years is nigh on insignificant. I have my own larder with two converted larder fridges and butcher all I shoot. I’ve not diverted to copper yet so am not taking to game dealers but I can see how the the whole process is so time consuming and potentially tiresome to some people lugging large beasts around and the constant butchery process that I’m not surprised recreational shooters cannot deliver the required cull targets in most areas. The job needs to be taken more seriously. I feel I put more effort in than a lot of recreational shooters.

Being traditional I would rather not shoot deer at night but can see with my own eyes how much more deer would be shot. It pains me to say but unless you’ve seen that amount of deer in front of you it’s hard to comprehend how much damage they do to the surrounding fauna and farmers livelihood. I’m constantly saying to one of my good farmer friends jusy be thankful you do not have fallow on here…yet!

Thanks for the kind words, i do not say what i say lightly thats for sure!

 

[User00053]

 

[User00053]

Thanks for the kind words, i do not say what i say lightly thats for sure!

Well I like what you say, no offence to others.

 

[John Doe]

I’m struggling with your numbers Lee.

You say you have a herd of 120-150 of which you shoot 30-50 a year which, in theory, is about right for a maintenance cull and, assuming others around you are also taking some out of this herd it should be stable if not in decline yet you say it is out of control.

Elsewhere you say that if you see eight you will be very disappointed if you don’t get six out of the group. If you are getting six at a time and yet only get fifty that suggests you only go out eight or nine times a year? Why don’t you just go out more often?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I’m struggling with your numbers Lee.

You say you have a herd of 120-150 of which you shoot 30-50 a year which, in theory, is about right for a maintenance cull and, assuming others around you are also taking some out of this herd it should be stable if not in decline yet you say it is out of control.

Elsewhere you say that if you see eight you will be very disappointed if you don’t get six out of the group. If you are getting six at a time and yet only get fifty that suggests you only go out eight or nine times a year? Why don’t you just go out more often?

Dont struggle with my numbers is the simple answer!

If i go every week the deer don't come, they go nocturnal, i go every 2 weeks!

Shoot hard let them settle and repeat.

And correct i shoot as many as humanly possible, on the last weekend of the hind season and we had already shot 50, 1 hour before sunrise a herd of at least 120 head came out in front pf one of my seats!

That told me all my hard work is basically for nothing because what i am doing is not being replicated by other stalkers!

I do not manage red deer anymore, those days are long gone, along with theory!

I just fill the larder, empty it wash down and repeat until the season is over!

 

[User00038]

This should be a really good day and an opportunity to get a bit more context on the Deer Management Strategy and the consultation. Are many of us going?

 

[StephenToast]

This should be a really good day and an opportunity to get a bit more context on the Deer Management Strategy and the consultation. Are many of us going?


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I would have liked to but it's too far really.

If something like this was put on closer to me I'd attend.

 

[Alastair Boston]

I would have liked to but it's too far really.

If something like this was put on closer to me I'd attend.

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future.Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

 

[User00038]

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future.Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

Definitely. This one is such a good range of speakers, so if you were able to get a similar day put together, then that would be perfect for both deer stalkers and landowners.

 

[StephenToast]

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future.Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

Yeah of course. With enough notice as well I'd travel a couple of hours to get there. Scotch Corner is just a bit too far from here this time.

 

[Alastair Boston]

Yeah of course. With enough notice as well I'd travel a couple of hours to get there. Scotch Corner is just a bit too far from here this time.

Thanks Stephen for the reply. Its so hard to get a location that suits all.Scotch Corner is ideal for folk up in the north of England and the top reaches of the midlands,leave it with me and I will see what I can do.

 

[Alastair Boston]

Yeah of course. With enough notice as well I'd travel a couple of hours to get there. Scotch Corner is just a bit too far from here this time.

Let's see what we can come up with in the future,thanks for replying.

 

[StephenToast]

Thanks Stephen for the reply. Its so hard to get a location that suits all.Scotch Corner is ideal for folk up in the north of England and the top reaches of the midlands,leave it with me and I will see what I can do.

Totally understand. You'll always have some moaning Suffolk farmer complaining he doesn't want to leave the county.

 

[John Doe]

If the speakers could be videoed and the information made available later that would be a huge advantage?