BASC response to England Deer Management Strategy consultation

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I have spent many years attending different seminars, and Stalker’s evenings, etc, but the result stays the same deer need to be shot!

the herd species need to be shot and shot hard to maintain a manageable healthy stock.

This is not what is happening!

So you can make it all sound pink and fluffy and you can get lots of people to talk and run on and make it look important and try to snare all manner of stalkers from every walk of life, or you can throw away the rose tinted glasses and get fell in, the days of bullshite and all the crap that goes with it are long gone!

In my personal opinion, your time is better spent in the field, actually managing the deer instead of listening to people talk about it!

 

[User00038]

I have spent many years attending different seminars, and Stalker’s evenings, etc, but the result stays the same deer need to be shot!

the herd species need to be shot and shot hard to maintain a manageable healthy stock.

This is not what is happening!

So you can make it all sound pink and fluffy and you can get lots of people to talk and run on and make it look important and try to snare all manner of stalkers from every walk of life, or you can throw away the rose tinted glasses and get fell in, the days of bullshite and all the crap that goes with it are long gone!

In my personal opinion, your time is better spent in the field, actually managing the deer instead of listening to people talk about it!

The only way to manage the deer on your own land is to get your neighbours (and their neighbours etc) to manage theirs. No landowner (or his stalker) can manage the herd spp on his own.

So the value of these meetings is to try and spread the word to those who aren't in the field focussing on the does/hinds and to the landowners who don't understand the significance of the problem.

There are loads of people in the same position as you - and it's clear you are frustrated - but without the majority of landowners co-operating over the wider landscape (which might be a 30-50mile radius), you're going to stay frustrated. We need to get these other landowners on side. I think these sorts of days are crucial for that. But if you have any other ideas for getting other landowners to work together and focus on culling females for population reduction... speak out!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The only way to manage the deer on your own land is to get your neighbours (and their neighbours etc) to manage theirs. No landowner (or his stalker) can manage the herd spp on his own.

So the value of these meetings is to try and spread the word to those who aren't in the field focussing on the does/hinds and to the landowners who don't understand the significance of the problem.

There are loads of people in the same position as you - and it's clear you are frustrated - but without the majority of landowners co-operating over the wider landscape (which might be a 30-50mile radius), you're going to stay frustrated. We need to get these other landowners on side. I think these sorts of days are crucial for that. But if you have any other ideas for getting other landowners to work together and focus on culling females for population reduction... speak out!

Believe me i have tried through, so had my land owner!

You talk to them and their man pops out shoots 1 fills his freezer and thats his lot until he runs low again!

Thats the way it is, i give up worrying about it now and i am going to do my best to wipe them out, then it will give me a few years to enjoy my stalking.

 

[kieran222]

The current laws are fine for a vast amount of England and Wales some parts of which have very few deer. Licensing for out of season and night shooting need easier to obtain where numbers of deer are higher such as controlling the fallow in the SE of England.

 

[User00038]

Believe me i have tried through, so had my land owner!

You talk to them and their man pops out shoots 1 fills his freezer and thats his lot until he runs low again!

Thats the way it is, i give up worrying about it now and i am going to do my best to wipe them out, then it will give me a few years to enjoy my stalking.

I do indeed believe you! And I am in the same situation but the significance of the impacts of these high populations across the whole landscape is so important to me that I have to stay positive that we can influence people. It's finding the right way to do it that is the key.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I do indeed believe you! And I am in the same situation but the significance of the impacts of these high populations across the whole landscape is so important to me that I have to stay positive that we can influence people. It's finding the right way to do it that is the key.

I think the biggest problem is that a lot of stalkers don’t have the right mindset to get on with the job, they just poke about fill their freezer and enjoy their time in the field, to which I don’t blame them many many years ago I was just like that, I enjoyed my stalking I went out, I fill my freezer or odd animal to the Game Dealer to cover my ammunition bit of diesel happy days.

But now particularly in my area luckily, at the moment the rut is on, and the hind numbers are about half of what we had at the end of last season at the moment, approximately 50 to 60 Hinds and calfs and 3 to 4 stags, so Proves my point, i’ve got 3 to 4 stags!

No bloody wonder why have we got a lot of hinds, because everybody wants to shoot the hat racks!

Nobody wants to work hard everyone wants to sell the stag or shoot the stag themselves and put the hat racks on the wall, no one give two hoots about proper ethical dear management anymore.

Is how much can I get for that stag?

How much can I get for that carcass?

if it’s not worthwhile it stays there ,people like me and probably you, who have never given two hoots about the financial implication of what we do, we just get our tits in the sink and get on with it year in year out and repeat

 

[User00038]

I think the biggest problem is that a lot of stalkers don’t have the right mindset to get on with the job, they just poke about fill their freezer and enjoy their time in the field, to which I don’t blame them many many years ago I was just like that, I enjoyed my stalking I went out, I fill my freezer or odd animal to the Game Dealer to cover my ammunition bit of diesel happy days.

But now particularly in my area luckily, at the moment the rut is on, and the hind numbers are about half of what we had at the end of last season at the moment, approximately 50 to 60 Hinds and calfs and 3 to 4 stags, so Proves my point, i’ve got 3 to 4 stags!

No bloody wonder why have we got a lot of hinds, because everybody wants to shoot the hat racks!

Nobody wants to work hard everyone wants to sell the stag or shoot the stag themselves and put the hat racks on the wall, no one give two hoots about proper ethical dear management anymore.

Is how much can I get for that stag?

How much can I get for that carcass?

if it’s not worthwhile it stays there ,people like me and probably you, who have never given two hoots about the financial implication of what we do, we just get our tits in the sink and get on with it year in year out and repeat

And these are the sorts of issues that need to be conveyed to all the surrounding landowners and their stalkers, in areas where herd spp numbers are unsustainably high. Without getting the message out to the right people, nothing will change. Days like the Scotch Corner one next week have to play a significant part in this, provided the right people attend.

With a bit of positivity, we can all contribute to the change by encouraging more of those people to go along.

 

[wytonpjs]

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future.Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

Yes please -I’d travel as I have fone for other BP/training session for up to 3 hrs

 

[Bowland blades]

If it was based say Manchester area folks could fly in for less than the fuel from Inverness or the south . Where it is everyone has a fair drive into a relatively low population area . Cost of fuel at present will hamper all venues accessed by car unfortunately, besides that there is the time of travel

 

[Jimbob39]

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future.Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

Absolutely yes!

 

[kieran222]

I don't think that the imbalance in hind/doe and stag/buck numbers is all down to trophy hunting. The timing of the hind and doe season doesn't help management and I realise that's for good reason. I bet a lot of amateur stalkers are less active in the winter months purely because of the weather. If its a hobby then most amateurs will probably wait for better weather than go out on a wet and windy day, myself included. Where you have high numbers this isn't an option if you are interested in management rather than just the odd day out when the weather is nice. I don't have huge numbers so I can be more selective about which days I go out.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I don't think that the imbalance in hind/doe and stag/buck numbers is all down to trophy hunting. The timing of the hind and doe season doesn't help management and I realise that's for good reason. I bet a lot of amateur stalkers are less active in the winter months purely because of the weather. If its a hobby then most amateurs will probably wait for better weather than go out on a wet and windy day, myself included. Where you have high numbers this isn't an option if you are interested in management rather than just the odd day out when the weather is nice. I don't have huge numbers so I can be more selective about which days I go out.

Personally i think trophies have a big part to play, you have a large amount of hinds your will have the stags thats nature!

The more Hinds you have the stags will come and the trophy hunters will have their trophies as sure eggs are eggs, why I bust a gut all winter, shooting Hinds when you can have a clients come shoot three or four stags and earn whatever you want to earn from 3/4 animals animals instead of shooting, 40 or 50 hinds!

Its pure basic maths.

 

[David Barker]

Lets hope Alita

If I get all the stars to line up,I may look at pulling together another similar event in the midlands in the future. Would folk from the south travel to such an event if we were to hold it in the midlands ?? Please give me some feedback,thanks.

Lets hope you have a positive effect on the deer population south of the border. Because that has not happened the north side of Hadrian's Wall. One of your Speakers (Ben Harrower) Will testify to that.

 

[Alastair Boston]

Lets hope Alita

Lets hope you have a positive effect on the deer population south of the border. Because that has not happened the north side of Hadrian's Wall. One of your Speakers (Ben Harrower) Will testify to that.

I can honestly say that all of the Deer Officers at the Forestry Commission are giving 100 %,so it won't be for the want of trying I can assure you.

 

[David Barker]

Alastair should that read FC England. Good luck with this as it will meet with some stubborn oposition.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lots of stalkers in the south east wanting perms for all pest control I have a syndicate offering this to help others .

 

[Klenchblaize]

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, arises from this consultation and mindful there is strong indication our new PM and her Government may be about to ditch farmer payments for environmental work and revert to money per hectare as part of DEFRA’s so-called “rapid review” of the Farming & Agricultural Policy.

Well, the Truss gang have demonstrated early capacity for U turns on their own policies so that progressed post Brexit by Boris, and said to be one of the jewels of such freedom from the EU, shouldn’t pose them a problem.

K

 

[DevonRifle]

I don't think that the imbalance in hind/doe and stag/buck numbers is all down to trophy hunting. The timing of the hind and doe season doesn't help management and I realise that's for good reason. I bet a lot of amateur stalkers are less active in the winter months purely because of the weather. If its a hobby then most amateurs will probably wait for better weather than go out on a wet and windy day, myself included. Where you have high numbers this isn't an option if you are interested in management rather than just the odd day out when the weather is nice. I don't have huge numbers so I can be more selective about which days I go out.

I think it’s a lot more to do with stalkers who have jobs. In the winter it is dark after work and they can’t shoot in the dark. This means either eating into family time at the weekend or taking regular days off when times are hard. It’s one argument banded around for night shooting. At least you aren’t shooting the hinds out of season with dependent young but it does have other down sides that I have heard from more knowledgeable people than me on this fine site. Maybe extending the one hour after sunset to two might help.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I think it’s a lot more to do with stalkers who have jobs. In the winter it is dark after work and they can’t shoot in the dark. This means either eating into family time at the weekend or taking regular days off when times are hard. It’s one argument banded around for night shooting. At least you aren’t shooting the hinds out of season with dependent young but it does have other down sides that I have heard from more knowledgeable people than me on this fine site. Maybe extending the one hour after sunset to two might help.

Whats needed is the hind season being extended a month/6weeks and legalised open night shooting of herd species!

You don't need to be out every day stalking to get numbers, that just makes them savvy!

Thats obviously ground dependent, if you have a 3000/10000 acre estate you can stalk different areas but like me if you only have small areas with a problem then 1 week on 1 week off works well.

 

[David Barker]

Lots of stalkers in the south east wanting perms for all pest control I have a syndicate offering this to help others .

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