BASC response to Firearms Licensing Guidance Consultation

[Orion]

I partly agree, for sure. The Police currently need to 'have regard to' the Guide - which I think was seen (for reasons entirely beyond my comprehension) as a Good Thing by many shooting folk, but not quite such a Good Thing as giving the Guide the authority of statute, as this would remove 'regional variations', which are seen almost obsessively by some (again, for reasons I simply cannot grasp) as very nearly the Worst Thing Ever.

Although S55A currently is not brilliant, a change to give the HO Guide the force of statute clearly would be a complete disaster: since the Police and the HO would then have, as you say, carte blanche to make up whatever they want and, by waving this magic wand over it, turn it into actual Law.

But does S55A apply retrospectively to the 2016 HOG or is it referring to any subsequent Guidance that the HO issue? I get the impression that many CCs are looking to work to the impending 'statutory guidance' regarding medical evidence - because it contains the revisions that they (FELWG) want in place - while still steadfastly refusing to abide by the parts of the 2016 HOG they don't like because it's 'just guidance'.

Whichever it is I totally agree with Carl's post above:

"Political lobbying is all well and good, but to get our attention, you need to give some people a bloody nose first. Pick a Chief Constable, point your lawyers at him, and start thumping. Heck, we'll all chip in money to help you if you need it. That's the only way you will gain our trust."

BASC need to focus on a single CC who is deviating from HOG and put him/her on notice that the shooting community will not roll over indefinitely.

 

[Liveonce]

Just did a FOI to Kent Police but they say they can take up to 20days to reply I have until 15th September to appeal to the IOPC.
We are starting to collectively suggest some good ideas let the powers that be no we will not continue to take it lying down!

 

[finnbear270]

That would work. But instead of an individual taking up the challenge maybe, just maybe, an organisation, possibly one with links to shooting, (however tenuous they may currently be), could take up the baton and do it on everyone's behalf? Now who could do that?

Too courteous to have a reply from the intended, you are SUCH a Gentleman Sir.

 

[finnbear270]

Odds on winning the lottery, 1 in 45,057,474 ... anyone with an idea of odds of a real dyed in the wool shooting type person being a winner? ... If it were me they could all look out.

 

[zambezi]

Maybe ask for a FoI request direct to all those constabularies who have deviated from HO guidance and ask the same question

Law-abidding shooters: we ALL need to do this.

 

[sh1kar]

As noted above I was rather expecting BASC would be all over this on our behalf

S

 

[Mickeydredd]

Law-abidding shooters: we ALL need to do this.

I've done Derbyshire

 

[Orion]

I've done Derbyshire

Victoria?

 

[kes]

As noted above I was rather expecting BASC would be all over this on our behalf

S

They are probably all wondering what to do - or maybe in the pub lic gallery listening to their political friends who seem not to listen to them ?
I think we all know BASC will do nothing except welcome the new HOG whilst waving both arms above their heads whilst kneeling - its happened before.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Coner could you please give links to the issues raised by law commission and HMIC in 2015.

The picture I get is we are not against medical intervention, but that it should be proportional to the risks and a process that works, which clearly does not at this time.

Until such time 2025? That a supper all signing medical records national database is available then the police should be following HOG 2016 as by not doing so at this time is actually increasing the risk of fraudulent applications with regards to medical information.

Conor you have had an email from me with my phone number and are yet to call me.
I have nearly completed my IOPC appeal letter and it would be useful if BASC would engage with me in this.

Or is even the IOPC a lost cause?

Apologies for that. I did email you back with my contact details etc a day after your email and I should have followed up on my email that I would be in touch soon. I have emailed you just now and hope we get a chance to talk tomorrow regarding your IOPC appeal letter.

The links are as follows:

2015. HMIC. Targeting the risk: an inspection of the efficiency and effectiveness of firearms licensing in police forces in England and Wales.
Download report at: www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/wp-content/uploads/firearms-licensing-targeting-the-risk.pdf

2015. Law Commission. Firearms Law: reforms to address pressing problems.
Download report at: www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/firearms/

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

They are probably all wondering what to do - or maybe in the pub lic gallery listening to their political friends who seem not to listen to them ?
I think we all know BASC will do nothing except welcome the new HOG whilst waving both arms above their heads whilst kneeling - its happened before.

Would you support a campaign for a fundamental review of firearms law for a new consolidated Firearms Act as the outcome; and for firearms licensing to be taken away from the police and administered by a dedicated body designed solely for that purpose?

 

[Greymaster]

Thanks Greymaster, I have sent a note to Dan (head of SE) and Michelle, one of his team, who may have been the lady you spoke to. I know they are at another event for the next few days

Well it has been three weeks since David BASC posted his comment to my statement that I had had a discussion with a SE Rep. She had promised the PO of SE and herself would get in touch for a meeting. It hasn't happened yet, but did I really expect BASC to fulfil a commitment?

 

[Liveonce]

Apologies for that. I did email you back with my contact details etc a day after your email and I should have followed up on my email that I would be in touch soon. I have emailed you just now and hope we get a chance to talk tomorrow regarding your IOPC appeal letter.

The links are as follows:

2015. HMIC. Targeting the risk: an inspection of the efficiency and effectiveness of firearms licensing in police forces in England and Wales.
Download report at: www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/wp-content/uploads/firearms-licensing-targeting-the-risk.pdf

2015. Law Commission. Firearms Law: reforms to address pressing problems.
Download report at: www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/firearms/

Conor, thank you for your reply, I have today send Paul at BASC a draft copy of the IOPC appeal.
Please if both of you could take time to read it (it is several pages) and verify accuracy and suggest any improvements that would be most constructive. I have tried to learn from my mistakes with regards to the original complain when I was naive and expected the investigating inspector to do a better job at examining the complaint that he did.

Just may be the IOPC is the way to go.

 

[Liveonce]

Would you support a campaign for a fundamental review of firearms law for a new consolidated Firearms Act as the outcome; and for firearms licensing to be taken away from the police and administered by a dedicated body designed solely for that purpose?

I think what we want is what the APP state

protecting public safety by preventing foreseeable or avoidable harm
delivering an efficient licensing process that is proportionate, rigorous, cost effective, fair and timely
providing a fair and transparent service to the public.

How that is achieved within reason is not an issue but what you suggest could be years away given the mess parliament is in and I cannot see that improving for a very long time.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Well it has been three weeks since David BASC posted his comment to my statement that I had had a discussion with a SE Rep. She had promised the PO of SE and herself would get in touch for a meeting. It hasn't happened yet, but did I really expect BASC to fulfil a commitment?

Feel free to call me tomorrow morning for a discussion on 01244 573035.

 

[Benelli m2]

As noted above I was rather expecting BASC would be all over this on our behalf

S

Basc. Stands for Biased against shooting community
I know of many of my mates that are not going to pay for Thier lavish Champaign dinners and top of the range 4x4s
I urge all basc members to stop crowd funding them and somehow set up s crowd funding campaign for ourselves and spread it around to other forum's

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Basc. Stands for Biased against shooting community
I know of many of my mates that are not going to pay for Thier lavish Champaign dinners and top of the range 4x4s
I urge all basc members to stop crowd funding them and somehow set up s crowd funding campaign for ourselves and spread it around to other forum's

Are you a BASC member and have you ever attended an AGM to make your case against "lavish Champaign dinners and top of the range 4x4s"?

 

[Benelli m2]

Are you a BASC member and have you ever attended an AGM to make your case against "lavish Champaign dinners and top of the range 4x4s"?

Yes use to be but not no more and never attended no need to 8 million in Thier fighting fund
How much of that has been spent on protecting our sport **** all

 

[Benelli m2]

Are you a BASC member and have you ever attended an AGM to make your case against "lavish Champaign dinners and top of the range 4x4s"?

Seems like your the first at the ****ing table

 

[Mickeydredd]

Victoria?

Gentlemen don't tell...…...