BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry.

[HonestJohn]

where are all these dead birds? I find plenty things in the wild daily, but not birds looking like they’ve died from poisoning

What about target practice with my 22lr in the field? Banned too as not an approved range? If not used on rabbits and not over wetland, surely the lead left in the soil isn’t causing harm?

 

[Heym SR20]

I do wonder how many of our birds and animals live long enough in the wild for any lead poisoning to take effect. A Blackbird for example lives between 2 and 4 years on average. Mallards somewhere between 5 and 10 years, once they are adults and haven't been predated. Around a quarter manage to make it from egg to fledgling. Swans do better, probably because they are big enough to deter predators. I suppose really it'll depend on how long they can survive having ingested lead. Which in turn will depend on the quantity of lead ingested. So many imponderables.

There have been numerous studies on in particular raptors found dead in the wild to show that they have elevated levels of lead in their blood.

Many species of wild animals and birds are on the brink of collapse. The smaller animals and birds are not long lived, as many do end up as bird poo. They relie on having large clutches of young to ensure that enough get through to breeding age. But if we as man are shortening the life, and reducing the fertility and survival of the young to breeding age, then indeed those that do get there have their lives shortened then the overall population suffers.

Same argument with fish - each produces millions of eggs, so it only needs one to get through, so doesn’t really matter if we fill our rivers with ****.

As for the argument that everybody else is polluting so why should I bother changing. Well its like the individual who open’s his car door in the street and drops his McDonalds wrappers etc out of his white BMW and drops them in the gutter cos he is too lazy to walk them to the bin that he is parked next to.

Pollution is caused by man. The solution has got to be from mankind. But if no one cares, then nothing happens.

Hunters, of which we on SD all are, should care intermittently about the natural world and we can each do our own little bit. Personally using non toxic ammunition and plastic free wads I know that my impact is minimised. And I know that when I and other family, friends and animals and birds eat the remains of what I have shot I am not putting lead into their system.

Power of the consumer is huge. I will not buy chicken from Tesco as the majority of their chickens are grown by the Cargill group in the Wye Valley and the net result has been to turn a beautiful pristine river into an open sewer.

 

[Heym SR20]

where are all these dead birds? I find plenty things in the wild daily, but not birds looking like they’ve died from poisoning

What about target practice with my 22lr in the field? Banned too as not an approved range? If not used on rabbits and not over wetland, surely the lead left in the soil isn’t causing harm?

How can you tell just by looking at something that is dead how it died. Have you taken blood and tissue samples that are then analysed.

Lead into the soil does dissolve, especially if any acidity is there. And everytime the soil is tilled the pellets will be abraded. The dissolved lead is then taken up into crops which are then eaten. It is often concentrated into the grains or other reproductive parts of plants such as tubers, which is after all what we then eat. It may only be a very small amount but it’s all accumulated in the body.

A few 22 slugs perhaps not very much.

But take a driven shoot. 1000 cartridges can easily be fired in one day. That’s 30 kg of lead pellets. 10 shoots a year, that’s 30 kg. Multiply that over many years and it soon adds up. And guns tend to stand in the same place at each drive and they tend to stand in fields of crops or grass and the pellets remain in the top soil.

Somebody will soon shout that there is lead in vegetables and grains. There is. And a lot comes from man made pollution.

As for 22lr, there is a very simple solution. A faster twist barrel. Simplest is to drill out the old rifling and glue in a sleeve. In the US sleeves are about $50 and it’s a couple of hours work for a gunsmith. But appreciate that $50 over there is probably £500 in the UK!

 

[Liveonce]

However the biggest reason I keep a .22lr is for its ability to perform with subsonic ammo.

Even if the science proves lead is detrimental to birds, so has been modern farming practices and the expansion of the infrastructure of modern life. Quantifying each parts impact is the challenge, during the bird flue outbreak dead birds were being found, so why not so for lead if it kills in a few weeks.

 

[Greenmist]

The shooting organisations are fixated with the move away from lead. I would be far happier if they concentrated on plastic instead. Every time the (shotgun) trigger is pulled a plastic wad enters the enviroment, and a plastic case could be discarded there also. Paper cartridges and a bio-degradable fibre wad would engineer out this problem immediately and would be be a really good thing for them to concentrate on.

All the shoots I help out on allow lead, but stipulate fibre or felt wads, all cases to be either collected or piled for collection. This has been the norm for many years. As to the point raised about clay grounds and game shoots, @Conor O'Gorman , has a study ever been done to determine the density of shot in the area

 

[Heym SR20]

All the shoots I help out on allow lead, but stipulate fibre or felt wads, all cases to be either collected or piled for collection. This has been the norm for many years. As to the point raised about clay grounds and game shoots, @Conor O'Gorman , has a study ever been done to determine the density of shot in the area

Shot density is pretty easy to calculate for the layman if you did basic maths at school.

 

[Whitefront]

Even if the science proves lead is detrimental to birds, so has been modern farming practices and the expansion of the infrastructure of modern life. Quantifying each parts impact is the challenge, during the bird flue outbreak dead birds were being found, so why not so for lead if it kills in a few weeks.

Effects of lead on wildlife and wildfowl - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

 

[GBR66]

All the shoots I help out on allow lead, but stipulate fibre or felt wads, all cases to be either collected or piled for collection. This has been the norm for many years. As to the point raised about clay grounds and game shoots, @Conor O'Gorman , has a study ever been done to determine the density of shot in the area

A friend of mine owns and runs a very large commercial shoot and has voluntarily gone lead free, he isn't enforcing it hard at the moment but has guns suitable for steel that he can lend. I have just done the sums as Heym20 suggested above for lead over a season with 2 shoots, boundary days, etc, and I get to a very conservative estimate of 3,500kg of lead a year.....ok its over a big area but the drives and pegs are in similar places year after year (and very good they are too!). He is pretty happy with the performance of steel and he has seen a lot of it fired as well as converting himself. I realise that isn't an answer to guns that can't fire steel but as a killing round he is happy.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

All the shoots I help out on allow lead, but stipulate fibre or felt wads, all cases to be either collected or piled for collection. This has been the norm for many years. As to the point raised about clay grounds and game shoots, @Conor O'Gorman , has a study ever been done to determine the density of shot in the area

I think there have been studies done in wetlands on lead shot density both in UK and in mainland Europe. This was many years ago.

 

[Mickeydredd]

I do wonder how many of our birds and animals live long enough in the wild for any lead poisoning to take effect. A Blackbird for example lives between 2 and 4 years on average. Mallards somewhere between 5 and 10 years, once they are adults and haven't been predated. Around a quarter manage to make it from egg to fledgling. Swans do better, probably because they are big enough to deter predators. I suppose really it'll depend on how long they can survive having ingested lead. Which in turn will depend on the quantity of lead ingested. So many imponderables.

Raptors will die within a few days

 

[jall55]

Raptors will die within a few days

But i have never seen one

 

[Heym SR20]

Here is widely cited study on raptor poisoning with lead. Worth a read.

The impact of lead poisoning from ammunition sources on raptor populations in Europe

Poisoning caused by ingestion of spent lead (Pb) ammunition in food items is a common cause of death of raptors. However, there has been no previous a…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Liveonce]

Here is widely cited study on raptor poisoning with lead. Worth a read.

The impact of lead poisoning from ammunition sources on raptor populations in Europe

Poisoning caused by ingestion of spent lead (Pb) ammunition in food items is a common cause of death of raptors. However, there has been no previous a…

www.sciencedirect.com

You only have to look at the authors to know it will be anti shooting biased.

 

[Heym SR20]

And some basics on lead in Man

Lead toxicity: a review - PMC

Lead toxicity is an important environmental disease and its effects on the human body are devastating. There is almost no function in the human body which is not affected by lead toxicity. Though in countries like US and Canada the use of lead has ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And I was closely involved with the company Pleco Therapeutics that took the base research carried out at the MD Cancer Clinic on heavy metals and Leukaemia outlined in this paper published in 2020

A heavy metal baseline score predicts outcome in acute myeloid leukemia - PubMed

Despite abundant epidemiological data linking metals to leukemia and other cancers, baseline values of toxic and essential metals in patients with leukemia and the clinical impact of these metals remain unknown. Thus, we sought to quantify metal values in untreated patients with acute myeloid...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That has resulted in Pleco Therapeutics sbd their partners Hyloris announcing granting of orphan drug status for their Plecoid technologies. These work by removing heavy metals in particular lead from patients with acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancers. Clinical studies have resulted in a majority of patients becoming and remaining free of the disease.

Press release - Pleco Therapeutics

plecotherapeutics.com

In the UK there were concerns in military on the effect of lead on soldiers even as far as first World War. Brown et Al published studies in the 1980’s on Journal of Military Medicine on the effect of lead exposure on indoor ranges on soldiers.

An interesting study would be looking at the correlation between lead induced disease and those who use firearms. It would be straightforward to do. All Shotgun Certificate and FAC holders have a flag on their medical records so the data set is there. Alternatively a study on BASC or NGO members medical records. Technically it’s straightforward to do. Getting the funding and ethical approvals may be more difficult.

In the meantime have a read of

Chronic Lead Intoxication From Eating Wild-Harvested Game

The purpose of this article is to determine if conversion from eating wild game harvested with lead-based ammunition to nonlead-based ammunition resul…

www.sciencedirect.com

And

Guidance on managing risks from lead ammunition | Lead ammunition in game meat

www.leadammunitionguidance.com

 

[Heym SR20]

You only have to look at the authors to know it will be anti shooting biased.

Disregard the authors. These are articles that are peer reviewed. The science is there. It is very easy to rubbish just because of who the authors are.

Or just ask anybody who is a falconer and whether or not the will feed lead shot birds or rabbits or venison to their birds of prey.

 

[StephenToast]

But i have never seen one

And of course you would know everything about every raptor death in the country just like you know everything there is to know about pheasant shooting.

 

[jall55]

And of course you would know everything about every raptor death in the country just like you know everything there is to know about pheasant shooting.

Im starting to know what you are

 

[Mickeydredd]

But i have never seen one

That may well be, but they do die within a few days if they ingest lead.

There's plenty of evidence in the falconry world of it happening.

 

[StephenToast]

That may well be, but they do die within a few days if they ingest lead.

There's plenty of evidence in the falconry world of it happening.

There is evidence in wild birds as well... Not least what is published by the GWCT above...

Lead contamination and associated disease in captive and reintroduced red kites Milvus milvus in England - PubMed

Since 1989, a red kite Milvus milvus reintroduction programme has been underway in the United Kingdom, with 4-6 week old nestlings brought into captivity and held for 6-8 weeks before reintroduction. As scavengers, red kites may consume unretrieved game, and ingest shot or lead (Pb) fragments in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There's none so blind as those that will not see.

 

[JTO]

Apologies to anyone who takes offence, but there is history to similar changes........slate to paper, horses to cars, sail to steam, coal to petrol / diesel

But these were all improvements.