Beavers - Rewilding

[Mungo]

OK...i bow to your superior knowledge. I think once you have shot 200 or so the differences stand out.

They would - if you started with no knowledge of beavers, and decided that any beaver you shot that looked one way was Eurasian, and any beaver that looked another way was American.

Sorry - but with all due respect to you mate, who may well be an extremely thoughtful and observant man, unless he had learned what the two looked like by examining definitely known specimens of the two species, all he's likely to be doing is noticing variation in the population, and assigning big ones to American and small ones to Eurasian. Even then - anyone who actually works with them professionally will tell you that it's not something you can have any certainty about without genetic samples.

 

[Scandially]

The first "odd" one was examined by Abertay university and was found to be NA.

 

[Mungo]

The first "odd" one was examined by Abertay university and was found to be NA.

View attachment 216680

Nothing there says anything about NA beavers.

But if you have a link or anything for the confirmed one, I’d be very keen to see it.

 

[opticron1]

Always used to laugh when I fished at Sandyknowes a few years back. The number of trees that were destroyed by the "escapee" beavers would give all the tree huggers and rewilders a fit of the vapours! Will be interesting when all the great tree planting schemes come to pass and then the bright sparks in the eco-lobby begin to realise just how damaging beavers are when their numbers explode. I suppose asking a few farmers in the Tay catchment for their views would be a bit too easy and sensible......

 

[Scandially]

Nothing there says anything about NA beavers.

But if you have a link or anything for the confirmed one, I’d be very keen to see it.

I tell you the best way...park your car at Pitlochrie Pool at Stanley and ask every gjillie on the right bank and when you get to Kenmore or even Killin just turn down the the left bank back to your car.

 

[Mungo]

I tell you the best way...park your car at Pitlochrie Pool at Stanley and ask every gjillie on the right bank and when you get to Kenmore or even Killin just turn down the the left bank back to your car.

I don’t deny there are lots of beavers, and they’re making a mess.

But excuse me if I don’t consider the opinion of Scottish gamekeepers to be terribly compelling evidence as to species identity.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I’m going to guess not one of them has ever actually seen a beaver that was definitely known to be American (as in confirmed to be so by an external reference). They don’t have the experience to be able to make the call.

They’ve seen variation in what they’re shooting - and like any species, some of that variation can be pretty big. And they’re calling big ones American and small ones Eurasian, with no external reference.

 

[dartmoordog]

Would Beaver dams not cause a stopper for migratory fish?

 

[Scandially]

Would Beaver dams not cause a stopper for migratory fish?

Of course they do. Salmonids dont use chainsaws.

 

[Mungo]

Would Beaver dams not cause a stopper for migratory fish?

Makes you wonder how any salmon survived when beavers were here before…

 

[willie_gunn]

Would Beaver dams not cause a stopper for migratory fish?

Not according to the EU-funded SALMONDAM research in Norway:

DO BEAVERS NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE ATLANTIC SALMON AND SEA TROUT RESOURCE? | FP7 | CORDIS | European Commission

Latest report summary

cordis.europa.eu

Even the Salmon and Trout Conservation organisation concluded that "Research suggests the view that beaver dams are routinely impassable for anadromous species is now untenable."

https://www.salmon-trout.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Reintroducing-Beavers-into-the-UK.pdf

 

[Scandially]

Makes you wonder how any salmon survived when beavers were here before…

Simple... farmers and gamekeepers and most other humans wrecked their dams to let migratory fish get to their redds in the headwaters. Beavers were hunted to extinction for a reason.

 

[steve sxs]

Would Beaver dams not cause a stopper for migratory fish?

You have to have migratory fish first before you can stop them, at the rate we are going we'll have bugger all very soon, but neh mind we'll get some lovely pics of beaver, otter, mink, pine Martin,

 

[willie_gunn]

Simple... farmers and gamekeepers and most other humans wrecked their dams to let migratory fish get to their redds in the headwaters. Beavers were hunted to extinction for a reason.

Or the river levels rose sufficiently to let the salmon get past the dams?

 

[Mungo]

Simple... farmers and gamekeepers and most other humans wrecked their dams to let migratory fish get to their redds in the headwaters. Beavers were hunted to extinction for a reason.

Amazing that salmon somehow made it through the millions of years before people got here…

 

[Scandially]

Up until the 1960's ANYTHING that ate what we ate got it .
Seals
Cormorants
Goosanders
Mergansers
Poachers

 

[Mungo]

Up until the 1960's ANYTHING that ate what we ate got it .

It really is a miracle that anything at all survived before humans were here to look after everything…

 

[steve sxs]

Up until the 1960's ANYTHING that ate what we ate got it .
Seals
Cormorants
Goosanders
Mergansers
Poachers

Lock and load,

 

[willie_gunn]

Up until the 1960's ANYTHING that ate what we ate got it .

Much the same reason why why some would like to see all deer eradicated.

“If it’s brown, it’s down”.

 

[Scandially]

Different days... no supermarkets, no money. My father and his brothers kept his town fed by poaching rabbits and fish during and after WW2.

 

[dartmoordog]

Makes you wonder how any salmon survived when beavers were here before…

Thank you for your very helpful reply to my simple question, luckily willie_gunn was more helpful.