Becoming an A/W

[baguio]

how many 20 year old driving examiers do you see ??? answer none

they tend to be highly experienced time served people who have been there seen it and done it for many many years.

after all a aw is just like a driving examier

How do you quantify experience then 223? Put it this way:
Two guys apply to be AW's. Man A has been deer stalking for 20 years. He stalks roe bucks twice a year.
Man B has been deer stalking for 3 years. He works as a deer manager on a large estate that holds 3 species and stalks everyday of the week.
DMQ bring out set criteria saying that all AW's must have 10 years experience minimum! Man A becomes an AW but Man B is prohibited.
Is this what you would like to see implemented?
Baguio

 

[223]

How do you quantify experience then 223? Put it this way:
Two guys apply to be AW's. Man A has been deer stalking for 20 years. He stalks roe bucks twice a year.
Man B has been deer stalking for 3 years. He works as a deer manager on a large estate that holds 3 species and stalks everyday of the week.
DMQ bring out set criteria saying that all AW's must have 10 years experience minimum! Man A becomes an AW but Man B is prohibited.
Is this what you would like to see implemented?
Baguio

my personal view I think a AW should of shot in excess of 300 deer (with proof) that would make them highly experienced in my eyes, that would sort the wheat from the chaff

 

[Beretta cocker]

What about a DSC3, AW and deer management training

 

[baguio]

my personal view I think a AW should of shot in excess of 300 deer (with proof) that would make them highly experienced in my eyes, that would sort the wheat from the chaff

We're getting silly now. Why 300? That would probably rule out 75% of the active AW's. Are park culls and lamped deer included in that total? Who is considered as suitable proof worthy signatures, Dr's, magistrates, CEO's or any old Tom, Dick or Harry?
Baguio

 

[223]

We're getting silly now. Why 300? That would probably rule out 75% of the active AW's. Are park culls and lamped deer included in that total? Who is considered as suitable proof worthy signatures, Dr's magistrates, CEO's or any old Tom, Dick or Harry?
Baguio

im not getting silly at all, I know several people over the 300 mark (not me) and I would deem them highly experienced guys , these kind of people in my eyes should be AW
only my opinion

 

[User00014]

Becoming an AW ?

If i had my time again i wouldnt bother and thats my honest opinion !

I have been an AW for 5 yrs or so , witnessed several guys from the SD in the past but now too many are becoming AW's for the sake of sounding important , thinking that its a kind of higher staus awarded to you .

Well your welcome to it , and good luck to you !

 

[baguio]

im not getting silly at all, I know several people over the 300 mark (not me) and I would deem them highly experienced guys , these kind of people in my eyes should be AW
only my opinion

Have they got proof?
Baguio

 

[223]

Have they got proof?
Baguio

extensive cull records and I mean extensive it makes your eyes water

 

[bogtrotter]

What about a DSC3, AW and deer management training

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[baguio]

extensive cull records and I mean extensive it makes your eyes water

I'm not trying to be argumentative but who is going to verify records for 300+ culls. I would take an age and even then it would probably be impossible to verify many of them. You must see that it's just not viable? I know lots of stalkers but suspect that only one has shot that many. Getting an AW would become damn near impossible based on your criteria.
Baguio

 

[6pointer]

Becoming an AW ?

If i had my time again i wouldnt bother and thats my honest opinion !

I have been an AW for 5 yrs or so , witnessed several guys from the SD in the past but now too many are becoming AW's for the sake of sounding important , thinking that its a kind of higher staus awarded to you .

Well your welcome to it , and good luck to you !

Bang on the money

 

[NigelM]

Becoming an AW ?

If i had my time again i wouldnt bother and thats my honest opinion !

I have been an AW for 5 yrs or so , witnessed several guys from the SD in the past but now too many are becoming AW's for the sake of sounding important , thinking that its a kind of higher staus awarded to you .

Well your welcome to it , and good luck to you !

Lee, if people like you didn't bother and it was left to the types who want to do it for the status of the title our little world would be a poorer place.

 

[countrryboy]

I think the problem is there is there is always a type of person that chase tickets to make them feel more important or want the extra quals for the wrong reasons (purely money making) or think it will get them extra stalking
Probably more so with the younger generation who are used to exams and needing tickets for everything while possibly the older generation shy away from it.

But experience alone does not guarantee they are the right person either. But sometimes younger or new eyes/ideas can also be a benefit rather than purely doing someting that was as we always do it that way. And possibly younger people may be able to get ideas across easier but then again as an AW ur really just watching anyway.
Not easy really and pretty much depends entirely on the idividual and almost impossible to make sweeping geralisations.

I must admit i do see or hear off people really pushing and going for their AW and i sometimes surprised, same on here how often do u see someone come on as a complete novice then within a year or 2 are giving advice on all sorts of things? (cue someone bringing up a stupid newbie question i've asked)

Bagio surely if ur shooting that ammount of deer on the cull records the vast majority will be going throu a game dealer so would be realitvely verified, yes if folk are really desperate to be an AW they could falsify things but why bother? Who could really be arsed doing that.

It probably isnae that bad a sort of ball park figure that would give u a fair understanding of deer and there habit's and there reaction to shot, if u've shot that ammount of deer does it really matter if some are park or lamped (which is really only an issue in scotland anyway) it should give u a far spread of expeience.
Yes 300 is a lot for an amatuer but a lot of pro stalkers will be doing that in a few years, so really even if u are young but working FT it's qite acheivable to be an AW by early 20's

 

[countrryboy]

Lee, if people like you didn't bother and it was left to the types who want to do it for the status of the title our little world would be a poorer place.

Unfortunately that is often the way nowadays with a lot of things

 

[Tackleberry270]

my personal view I think a AW should of shot in excess of 300 deer (with proof) that would make them highly experienced in my eyes, that would sort the wheat from the chaff

Not if they emptied the guts and threw every carcass on the back of the truck without inspecting it. Think about it. And believe me it happens!

 

[Taff]

Thought about becoming a Jehovah's witness is it similar ?

 

[Monkey Spanker]

my personal view I think a AW should of shot in excess of 300 deer (with proof) that would make them highly experienced in my eyes, that would sort the wheat from the chaff

I'm sorry but your view is very blinkered! I have witnessed stalks of stalkers that have culled far in excess of 300 deer, and to be honest, they were some of the worst I have ever witnessed!
Quantity is not a measure of quality! It's just as easy to do it wrong 300 times as it is to do it right!
You appear to be trying to fix something that isn't actually broken with some fairly random ideas. Have you actually achieved the DSC 2 award yourself to hold such strong views, and if so, what were you not happy with exactly?
MS

 

[User00001]

I can't speak for anyone else but I think AW work is the hardest thing I do in relation to deer work by a long way. Maybe I'm not naturally gifted at paperwork but I would rather be in the larder skinning deer all day long than do an AW stalk.

The only reason that I haven't given it up years ago is because I'm too bloody stubborn to let anything beat me!

I've been an AW for over ten years and I can think back and count on one or two hands the number of stalks that were actually enjoyable. I would say that seven out of ten candidates are not up to the required standard and are putting themselves forward too soon. As has been said many times, its not the Aw's job to criticise only to observe, question and record but its very hard to do this in a positive way when they are clearly struggling.

Like Eddie, I too interview and advise prospective candidates before I agree to witness them, if I just took on all comers I would have cut my wrists with my gralloching knife by now! Sometimes you have to rephrase a question several times in order to extract an answer vaguely near what you are looking for.

It seems to be a lot better recently but the next most fun part was the inquisition by the Assessor, once the candidate submits his portfolio the Assessor would ring up and hassle the witness for an hour, always in the evening, making you feel like its you thats on trial.

As for making shed loads of money out of it forget it, you would be better of getting a paper round or doing a shift behind the bar in your local.

Training people up to the required standard is a different kettle of fish entirely, this is very enjoyable and satisfying but, hardly anyone wants to do this because they can learn it all from the interweb apparently.

Sorry if this is a bit too honest but I tell it like it is.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Lots of good points being made in this thread, and I've viewed it with interest.
I suppose different people become Approved Witnesses for different reasons.

Me, I did it as it felt like a natural progression. I'm quite driven, have a tutoring and assessing background and enjoy being part of the process and meeting other stalkers. . .
I've spent virtually all my working life doing paperwork in one form or another so it's water off a ducks back.

Financially I make very little out of it, I charge £50 for a successful stalk and write-up, £30.00 for my time and fuel if unsuccessful. . . If you know your stuff and have the deer you can potentially get your L2 with me for £150.00, not a bad deal I think.

Many people give up their time and witness candidates for nothing and I applaud them for that, I don't for two reasons.

1) I found with some candidates 'my expenses' never materialised, and I ended up out of pocket.
2) If the stalk costs candidates 'something' I find they are almost always better prepared, they turn up on time, and it puts off those not quite ready for the assessment.

The L2 process has many pros and con's, but I think in essence it's on the money, but from a professional point of view I know of very few other industry standard qualifications where only one assessor (AW) can sign off an entire portfolio of evidence. The L2 qualification could in one foul swoop be given more credibility if a minimum of two AWs were required per portfolio.

In terms of experience, it's all relative. Do we term the lad who culls 300 deer a year in the lamp 'the expert'.
Or is the expert, the lad who manages to covers 200 yards of dead ground to get a shot at the wiley old buck who knows something just aint right?
Maybe it's a mix of both.

Every AW brings something different to the mix, what I think most have in common though is they don't make much money from doing it, and like me, for the most part just enjoy playing a small part in the process and being out in the countryside with likeminded guys.

I should maybe take up dogging

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Becoming an AW ?

If i had my time again i wouldnt bother and thats my honest opinion !

I have been an AW for 5 yrs or so , witnessed several guys from the SD in the past but now too many are becoming AW's for the sake of sounding important , thinking that its a kind of higher staus awarded to you .

Well your welcome to it , and good luck to you !

6pointer / Lee, if disillusioned, why not just ask to be removed from the list.
No point in remaining as an AW if you are no longer gaining any enjoyment or satisfaction from doing it.