Biodiversity and Cull Selection

[J D-C]

Dear SD,

I would like to gather some opinions on Fallow management, specifically how experienced Deer managers see ‘best practice’ for the selection of cull animals.

There are increasing numbers of Fallow on farmland in the South of England and whilst the landscape can carry large numbers of deer, as the numbers increase biodiversity is affected, particularly in woodland. It logically follows that an increase in management is required, however incorrect management techniques can increase natural reproduction rates and trophy hunting can alter herd dynamics. Given that fallow can travel large distances, it is hard to apply management principles to animals one rarely sees and thus should we be making dynamic assessments upon cull animals the herds seen travelling across one’s permissions or be less discriminative and take opportunities to drive down numbers - what is the correct approach?

Logically, it would seem best to me to have a combined management plan for larger areas - combining localised management plans to establish wider objectives. Where would we start to enable that?

Grateful for any links to studies on herd dynamics and the effect of culling on herd genealogy.

Many thanks.

 

[User00040]

If numbers are high enough to be a problem, shoot as hard (many) as possible.

You can be selective when numbers are low.

 

[timbrayford]

If numbers are high enough to be a problem, shoot as hard (many) as possible.

You can be selective when numbers are low.

If given the opportunity of male & female animals at any one occasion select the female, the younger the better!

 

[Erik Hamburger]

1. If you have a choice between a Buck or a Doe, take the Doe. The logic is in that culling the breeding females will have a better long-term effect on population control.
2. If you have a choice between a young Doe or an older Doe, take the younger Doe. The logic is that a younger Doe will potentially produce more offspring (live longer) than a mature Doe.
3. If you only have Bucks to select a shot from...: I am not sure: Maybe other SD Members can give their view? Best to cull the younger ones, or the more mature Bucks??

 

[muddy42]

1. If you have a choice between a Buck or a Doe, take the Doe. The logic is in that culling the breeding females will have a better long-term effect on population control.
2. If you have a choice between a young Doe or an older Doe, take the younger Doe. The logic is that a younger Doe will potentially produce more offspring (live longer) than a mature Doe.
3. If you only have Bucks to select a shot from...: I am not sure: Maybe other SD Members can give their view? Best to cull the younger ones, or the more mature Bucks??

1. Obviously also check the law - does (and to some extent bucks) have closed seasons for welfare reasons too.

If 3., the perceived wisdom is too shoot the older bucks that are past their prime and have had the chance to pass on their genes. Clearly unless the younger one looks injured, switchy, ill, or has any traint you don't want passed on.

In reality, I think life is never this simple. Neighbours may shoot more or less, crops and felling of old trees may change the population that land can hold. If I see a lot of deer / deer damage, I increase the doe cull the following year and vice versa, that's pretty much it.

 

[foxdropper]

The first thing that culling fallow needs is lads that actually cull fallow and don’t just lease ground to boast about and talk shite on here about going out and shooting a doe the odd weekend .
There is no magic in culling deer ,hit the females hard in the season no matter the age or species and stop them breeding the following spring .
The crap spouted ,the ground taken up by selfish 3 stalks a year types is why we have the problem ,that and the stupid night laws .
We need compulsory culling the likes of Scotland has to get numbers down to where a proper management plan can be implemented
Landowners who hitherto won’t allow culling should be forced to allow contractors on to disperse herds seeing these patches as a refuge .
Its not science just common sense ,shouldn’t need a mortgage to shoot fallow and we need to uppublic intake of quality meat ,wild produced .
Until these things are implemented we will see fallow numbers rise ,rta rocket and individuals suffer in size and disease ie tb .

 

[User00038]

There are increasing numbers of Fallow on farmland in the South of England and whilst the landscape can carry large numbers of deer, as the numbers increase biodiversity is affected, particularly in woodland.

In addition to biodiversity impacts, there are negative impacts on soil health, carbon sequestration, erosion & water quality. Loss of crop can be significant, an estimate of grass loss as much as £250/ha.

Given that fallow can travel large distances, it is hard to apply management principles to animals one rarely sees and thus should we be making dynamic assessments upon cull animals the herds seen travelling across one’s permissions or be less discriminative and take opportunities to drive down numbers - what is the correct approach?

The graph is taken from a recent paper (The scale-dependent effectiveness of wildlife management: A case study on British deer N. Fattorini, S. Lovari, P. Watson, R. Putman - 2020) and shows that fallow management is only effective when undertaken on a landscape scale. This study is the first to put a measurement on what that actually means. A radius of 75km or more is needed. Expecting individual landowners to manage their own deer is not realistic.



Y-axis is management effectiveness of fallow deer
X-axis is the radius over which management occurred in km

Logically, it would seem best to me to have a combined management plan for larger areas - combining localised management plans to establish wider objectives. Where would we start to enable that?

Neighbouring landowners need to talk to each other and decide to co-operate, but as others have commented there are too many places where culling is infrequent/non-existent or focussed on bucks. Landowners need to set the expectations and stalkers comply or get out. Compulsory culling on land that has effectively become a deer sanctuary would be nice! 20 acres of sanctuary can make it difficult for the surrounding 1000...

Grateful for any links to studies on herd dynamics and the effect of culling on herd genealogy.

Many thanks.

Studies will be interesting reading but, as others have said, you may be over-thinking it. If it is a doe, shoot it. Bucks are frequently over-shot and so it may be better not to take any for a while, to allow an age-structure of replacements to develop.

All the best
PC

 

[Tim.243]

Dear SD,

I would like to gather some opinions on Fallow management, specifically how experienced Deer managers see ‘best practice’ for the selection of cull animals.

There are increasing numbers of Fallow on farmland in the South of England and whilst the landscape can carry large numbers of deer, as the numbers increase biodiversity is affected, particularly in woodland. It logically follows that an increase in management is required, however incorrect management techniques can increase natural reproduction rates and trophy hunting can alter herd dynamics. Given that fallow can travel large distances, it is hard to apply management principles to animals one rarely sees and thus should we be making dynamic assessments upon cull animals the herds seen travelling across one’s permissions or be less discriminative and take opportunities to drive down numbers - what is the correct approach?

Logically, it would seem best to me to have a combined management plan for larger areas - combining localised management plans to establish wider objectives. Where would we start to enable that?

Grateful for any links to studies on herd dynamics and the effect of culling on herd genealogy.

Many thanks.

Buy the book from Larry
South of the M4

For Sale: - New Stalking book

Is there a hardback edition?

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[TomT3]

Dear SD,

I would like to gather some opinions on Fallow management, specifically how experienced Deer managers see ‘best practice’ for the selection of cull animals.

There are increasing numbers of Fallow on farmland in the South of England and whilst the landscape can carry large numbers of deer, as the numbers increase biodiversity is affected, particularly in woodland. It logically follows that an increase in management is required, however incorrect management techniques can increase natural reproduction rates and trophy hunting can alter herd dynamics. Given that fallow can travel large distances, it is hard to apply management principles to animals one rarely sees and thus should we be making dynamic assessments upon cull animals the herds seen travelling across one’s permissions or be less discriminative and take opportunities to drive down numbers - what is the correct approach?

Logically, it would seem best to me to have a combined management plan for larger areas - combining localised management plans to establish wider objectives. Where would we start to enable that?

Grateful for any links to studies on herd dynamics and the effect of culling on herd genealogy.

Many thanks.

Interesting topic - thanks for posting.

 

[J D-C]

Thank very much to those who have commented above, some really interesting posts that will feed into my plans, thanks.

 

[J D-C]

Buy the book from Larry
South of the M4

For Sale: - New Stalking book

Is there a hardback edition?

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Profiteering you say? I'll have a look, thank you.

 

[J D-C]

In addition to biodiversity impacts, there are negative impacts on soil health, carbon sequestration, erosion & water quality. Loss of crop can be significant, an estimate of grass loss as much as £250/ha.

The graph is taken from a recent paper (The scale-dependent effectiveness of wildlife management: A case study on British deer N. Fattorini, S. Lovari, P. Watson, R. Putman - 2020) and shows that fallow management is only effective when undertaken on a landscape scale. This study is the first to put a measurement on what that actually means. A radius of 75km or more is needed. Expecting individual landowners to manage their own deer is not realistic.

View attachment 228371

Y-axis is management effectiveness of fallow deer
X-axis is the radius over which management occurred in km



Neighbouring landowners need to talk to each other and decide to co-operate, but as others have commented there are too many places where culling is infrequent/non-existent or focussed on bucks. Landowners need to set the expectations and stalkers comply or get out. Compulsory culling on land that has effectively become a deer sanctuary would be nice! 20 acres of sanctuary can make it difficult for the surrounding 1000...


Studies will be interesting reading but, as others have said, you may be over-thinking it. If it is a doe, shoot it. Bucks are frequently over-shot and so it may be better not to take any for a while, to allow an age-structure of replacements to develop.

All the best
PC

This is exceptionally useful and precisely what I was after - thank you PorkChops

 

[Tim.243]

Profiteering you say? I'll have a look, thank you.

No...just chatted to him a few times also asking his opinion on what he thought of how I opened up the chest of a fallow with my tripe knife.

 

[J D-C]

No...just chatted to him a few times also asking his opinion on what he thought of how I opened up the chest of a fallow with my tripe knife.

You are a gentleman - thanks

 

[Dorset Shakari]

In addition to biodiversity impacts, there are negative impacts on soil health, carbon sequestration, erosion & water quality. Loss of crop can be significant, an estimate of grass loss as much as £250/ha.

The graph is taken from a recent paper (The scale-dependent effectiveness of wildlife management: A case study on British deer N. Fattorini, S. Lovari, P. Watson, R. Putman - 2020) and shows that fallow management is only effective when undertaken on a landscape scale. This study is the first to put a measurement on what that actually means. A radius of 75km or more is needed. Expecting individual landowners to manage their own deer is not realistic.

View attachment 228371

Y-axis is management effectiveness of fallow deer
X-axis is the radius over which management occurred in km



Neighbouring landowners need to talk to each other and decide to co-operate, but as others have commented there are too many places where culling is infrequent/non-existent or focussed on bucks. Landowners need to set the expectations and stalkers comply or get out. Compulsory culling on land that has effectively become a deer sanctuary would be nice! 20 acres of sanctuary can make it difficult for the surrounding 1000...


Studies will be interesting reading but, as others have said, you may be over-thinking it. If it is a doe, shoot it. Bucks are frequently over-shot and so it may be better not to take any for a while, to allow an age-structure of replacements to develop.

All the best
PC

Very interesting Pork Chops. When I was at Agricultural College I wrote my Masters Degree dissertation in Deer Damage on Arable Crops. I subsequently wrote a couple of articles linked to this and the requirement for Deer Management Groups that, where possible, match the range of herding deer, rather that letting stalking rights out to individuals with an eye on antlers. This would effectively manage the herd, provide sustainable income, and general happiness all-round. That was 25 years ago.

 

[User00038]

Just imagine if we'd had 25 years of concerted landscape-scale planned management... let's hope that we make progress towards that before another 25 years pass us by.

 

[Leec6.5]

Herd species management is as simple as this-

Kill kill kill and repeat!

You meed to shoot 50% of the herd to keep at its present population level.

In other words massacre the females at every available opportunity.

What works for me is never shoot in big herds (difficult with fallow i know!)

Try to wipe out all the small groups, you can get on to.

I have been doing this same tactic for the last 6-7 years.

No mercy!

Another little tip is hit them every other week, i do this on reds and I have had some excellent results

 

[J D-C]

Very interesting Pork Chops. When I was at Agricultural College I wrote my Masters Degree dissertation in Deer Damage on Arable Crops. I subsequently wrote a couple of articles linked to this and the requirement for Deer Management Groups that, where possible, match the range of herding deer, rather that letting stalking rights out to individuals with an eye on antlers. This would effectively manage the herd, provide sustainable income, and general happiness all-round. That was 25 years ago.

DS, I would be interested to read your work, if you were happy to allow that? I’d be surprised if things have changed that much in 25yrs.

 

[Dorset Shakari]

I'm afraid I don't have a copy, as it was before widespread IT, around 1998. There should be a copy in the library at Cirencester. The Title was Arable Crop Damage caused by Deer in East Anglia, or similar. PM if you need anything else.

Personally I think things have changed for the worse, due to the increase of popularity in deer stalking leading to lack of cooperation among stalkers, and too many new entrants who just want to go out and kill things with the latest long-range gizmo rather than get to know the ecology of the land, and manage it sustainably.

 

[Leec6.5]

I'm afraid I don't have a copy, as it was before widespread IT, around 1998. There should be a copy in the library at Cirencester. The Title was Arable Crop Damage caused by Deer in East Anglia, or similar. PM if you need anything else.

Personally I think things have changed for the worse, due to the increase of popularity in deer stalking leading to lack of cooperation among stalkers, and too many new entrants who just want to go out and kill things with the latest long-range gizmo rather than get to know the ecology of the land, and manage it sustainably.

Spot on!