Bismuth load for driven duck day

[User00052]

HI all,

I am due to go on a driven duck day next season and one of the chaps organising has suggested i'll need to use High performance steel due to the the height of the birds.

Problem is I dont have a steel proof gun and was hoping to use my regular gun, a heavy-ish german (simson of suhl) 1929 SXS (2 3/4"chamber, improved and 3/8 choke).

My main concern is getting a cartridge that will ensure clean kills. The thinking being I guess that standard steel wont cut it?
So current thoughts are using a 32g bismuth no 4 or no 3 load, and was curious if anyone had any experience, thoughts, recommendations.

Or maybe its time I bought a steel proof o/u ?

Thanks in advance

J

 

[enfieldspares]

When I first used bismuth nearly ten plus years ago I( 1 1/8 ounce English #5) my thoughts were that it performed better than lead as it gave better patterns. Indeed I said at the time that if it was the same price as lead I'd use it on preference to lead as it was a better killer. Advising using high performance steel on high birds sounds "tommyrot" to me as steel sheds velocity like nobody's business. Bismuth being denser will retain velocity better and it being a smaller pellet will be less ballistically inefficient than a larger diameter steel pellet of the same weight.

 

[Tim.243]

HI all,

I am due to go on a driven duck day next season and one of the chaps organising has suggested i'll need to use High performance steel due to the the height of the birds.

Problem is I dont have a steel proof gun and was hoping to use my regular gun, a heavy-ish german (simson of suhl) 1929 SXS (2 3/4"chamber, improved and 3/8 choke).

My main concern is getting a cartridge that will ensure clean kills. The thinking being I guess that standard steel wont cut it?
So current thoughts are using a 32g bismuth no 4 or no 3 load, and was curious if anyone had any experience, thoughts, recommendations.

Or maybe its time I bought a steel proof o/u ?

Thanks in advance

J

For one day after shooting your sbs then switch to a O/U you could be in bung hole or out of it...if it is ducks off a lake I would stick to what you know with the sbs and swallow the cost of the Bu.
I would not swap to a sbs after shooting an O/U for a long time for one day on the ducks.

 

[Bowland blades]

HI all,

I am due to go on a driven duck day next season and one of the chaps organising has suggested i'll need to use High performance steel due to the the height of the birds.

Problem is I dont have a steel proof gun and was hoping to use my regular gun, a heavy-ish german (simson of suhl) 1929 SXS (2 3/4"chamber, improved and 3/8 choke).

My main concern is getting a cartridge that will ensure clean kills. The thinking being I guess that standard steel wont cut it?
So current thoughts are using a 32g bismuth no 4 or no 3 load, and was curious if anyone had any experience, thoughts, recommendations.

Or maybe its time I bought a steel proof o/u ?

Thanks in advance

J

HP steel is generally for 3" chamber "36 gram size 3 for instance" . Bismuth i would personally go number 4 max 3 wont get you the pattern densities and shouldn't be required , high duck carry shot a long way and you really want head and neck impacts do drop them out . Better bite the bullet and get a HP steel gun if you can and go shoot it on some clays because we are talking reduced shot strings with steel ( but they really do kill well )

 

[HallyButt]

Either will be fine for Ducks, you need a shot size larger than lead if Bismuth, driven duck tends to be low bag filler stuff so don’t stress too much, HP Steel is horrible stuff unless in a big Clay gun or semi auto.

 

[Smellydog]

I'd just use steel. Dunno why folk over think it.

If my friend, an ex world champ X2 says it's fine , and he's been testing it I'm ok with it to.

 

[HallyButt]

Because the recoil on a light sxs will be terrible

 

[User00052]

@enfieldspares interesting to hear your experience, and your comment about steel losing its power at range was mine also

@Tim.243 exactly - changing to something new will only mess with my shooting

And the cost of the new gun would outweigh the bismuth. I also like a fairly short stock and most new guns feel too long for me at the standard 14 3/4 lop.

 

[User00052]

Thank you all for toyr comments. Im going to stick with the sxs and get some Bu.

I will go a shot size higher as suggested

Cheers

J

 

[Island]

HI all,

I am due to go on a driven duck day next season and one of the chaps organising has suggested i'll need to use High performance steel due to the the height of the birds.

Problem is I dont have a steel proof gun and was hoping to use my regular gun, a heavy-ish german (simson of suhl) 1929 SXS (2 3/4"chamber, improved and 3/8 choke).

My main concern is getting a cartridge that will ensure clean kills. The thinking being I guess that standard steel wont cut it?
So current thoughts are using a 32g bismuth no 4 or no 3 load, and was curious if anyone had any experience, thoughts, recommendations.

Or maybe its time I bought a steel proof o/u ?

Thanks in advance

J

I am always very wary of people making statements like that.

In fact I'll go as far as saying that he is incorrect.

 

[Tim.243]

@enfieldspares interesting to hear your experience, and your comment about steel losing its power at range was mine also

@Tim.243 exactly - changing to something new will only mess with my shooting

And the cost of the new gun would outweigh the bismuth. I also like a fairly short stock and most new guns feel too long for me at the standard 14 3/4 lop.

I have x2 Browning's both 30" the same lop and left cast one has a 3" chamber so abt 8 oz's heavier which I use on the marsh with 1/4 > 1/2. Early season teal coming in to the decoys a 32-5 and as they get wiser later in the season 34-3's also some 36-3's if any honkers are around. Money is not going so far these days so I don't intend to change.

 

[paulbshooting]

Had the same dilemma and bought a new W&S O/U that is HP steel rated, for duck and also high pheasant and clays. I never need an excuse to buy more kit! Cost alone of bismuth is eye watering so put that towards buying the new gun.

 

[User00052]

I am always very wary of people making statements like that.

In fact I'll go as far as saying that he is incorrect.

I think the suggestion was well meaning, he's a good chap with far more knowledge and experience than me, but this change to steel throws up all sorts.

I'm going to stick to my SxS and try some bismuth loads, in 30g and 32g 5s and 4s.

 

[Bowland blades]

Either will be fine for Ducks, you need a shot size larger than lead if Bismuth, driven duck tends to be low bag filler stuff so don’t stress too much, HP Steel is horrible stuff unless in a big Clay gun or semi auto.

I think the suggestion was well meaning, he's a good chap with far more knowledge and experience than me, but this change to steel throws up all sorts.

I'm going to stick to my SxS and try some bismuth loads, in 30g and 32g 5s and 4s.

If you use std steel 30-32 gram number 5 on mallard you need them to break into 30 yards or less . Steel unlike lead drops energy fast in a short window 4 is ok to 35- 40 yards , as always check your pattern first ( something that steel is very good at doing ) downside is its very uncommon to get one or two pellet kills from what should have been a miss from fliers , short dense strings so get some clay time in first
HP steel 36 grams number 3 or American 2 is a world away from std steel

 

[enfieldspares]

I am in Leicester. Just off the A47. Leicester Forest East way. If the OP contacts me he can buy, say just five, bismuth to try. Say £1.20 a round*. Heck! He could even use a £2 ticket on the 148 or 158 bus to collect them if he gets off at the Red Cow at Leicester Forest East! But no SGC = No cartridges. I will ask the Marlow's if he can try these at Thurlaston if at all possible.

* Five cartridges of each loading maximum offered at that price and to the OP only! I have bismuth 1 1\8 ounce #5 and bismuth 1 ounce #6. These are Eley factory made cartridges not homeloads.

 

[bullet chucker]

price of Bismuth is not much over what we are chucking down range at PAPER' with our center fires?

BC.

 

[User00052]

Many thanks @enfieldspares very kind offer - I will be in touch!

 

[enfieldspares]

Many thanks @enfieldspares very kind offer - I will be in touch!

PM me. Once a "meet" is sorted I'll have a chat with the Marlows at Normanton Shooting Ground and see if a try out is possible as, being a CPSA ground a one ounce English #6 restriction is relevant. For the 1 ounce bismuth Eley Impax of course they meet that specification. Note Normanton SG is closed on Sunday and Monday and only open alternate Saturdays.

 

[Jagare]

A few years back I was invited on a driven duck day and I was told that we must use steel on some of the places we were shooting that day. So off to the LGS I pootle and bought some steel shot cartridges. Can't remember the make but it said on the box they were 3"Hyper sonic cartridges. The only gun I had that was suitable to shoot said cartridges was a 870 Wing Master 3" magnum. The noise & recoil was amazing but they did kill the ducks deader than a dead thing. Its the only time In 50 years of shooting that I have had a bruised shoulder after firing those cartridges. I won't be buying Hyper Sonic cartridges again

 

[Island]

A few years back I was invited on a driven duck day and I was told that we must use steel on some of the places we were shooting that day. So off to the LGS I pootle and bought some steel shot cartridges. Can't remember the make but it said on the box they were 3"Hyper sonic cartridges. The only gun I had that was suitable to shoot said cartridges was a 870 Wing Master 3" magnum. The noise & recoil was amazing but they did kill the ducks deader than a dead thing. Its the only time In 50 years of shooting that I have had a bruised shoulder after firing those cartridges. I won't be buying Hyper Sonic cartridges again

I have found that quite often nowadays, regardless of the material make-up of the payload. I blame, and despair for, the modern fashion for faster and faster cartridges. I find them deeply unpleasant to shoot.

Over time I have settled on Hull Imperial or Gamebore Regal for all my driven shooting, between 28g and 30g loads depending on what is available at the time. They pattern best through my guns and they hit hard.

During testing the Hull High Pheasant had patterned not too badly also and in a moment of madness, being caught short with a last minute shoot date, I bought a slab of High Pheasant Extreme to try. They had the single most unpleasant recoil characteristics of any cartridge I have ever fired. Mid-way through the second drive I swapped cartridge bags with my neighbour and at the end of the drive gave him the entire slab in exchange for three boxes of Imperials...