Black Sun Dark Engine IR

why sell lazer iluminators if led is better like every one else bud yourself clive etc bring out new stuff if you dont want eney one to purchase them why manufacture them :rolleyes:
have to chip in hear i have never used the srx ot the sirius xtc what i can say is this do we nead iluminators to go beyond 500yards who the hell shoots that far at night clives unit tested by myself got to 500yards and gave a good image for the price its a fair unit simple to use light runs on one battery and will not burn my retenas out why do i nead to spend another 60bills for very little returns over clives unit we are suposed to be shooters not night time snipers this ****ing contest is not doing us eney good im sure clive and the other desighners put a fair bit off money in to there products so lets enjoy them without all the bickering lads it brings the tone off the site down

Your above comment, again why not stick to LED if you don't want to burn anythings retinas out and you don't see the need for anything more powerful ..why have you bought a laser in the first place? Why not get something even more powerful, like one of the other models that can see further and allow higher magnifications to be used or less suitable NV scopes with coatings that reduce IR, something more powerful could stop you having to swap scopes to another model ?

You quote do we need illuminators that can see beyond 500yds ? Well you bought one so you obviously do ?
 
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Wow Ian. o_O

It's a shame that you perceive it as that.

I'm pretty sure I have never made any direct comparisons or indeed singled out or mentioned any one single laser illuminator when discussing these. For one manufacturer or reseller to draw direct comparisons or make negative comments about another's product would be pretty crass and amateur at best, so I'm careful never to do it myself.

I've never given anyone any 'grief' as you put it. It's actually the other way around. This stems from me once again mentioning my genuine concerns about the safety of 'ALL' of these new lasers last August on another forum. Predictably it was scoffed at by yourself and other people wishing to line their pockets selling these new wonder lasers, or mates thereof. But interestingly, one manufacturer very quickly changed their publicised specification. :-|

Once, as I predicted, it turned into a brightness race by people having no clue what they were putting together or the dangerous power outputs they were achieving we put a few test units together to see just how dangerous they could be made to help others understand what they were buying, because it was clear the people selling them had no idea. We have several specialist instruments to test power output so it was a very quick process for us.

Very quickly and easily we came up with a unit that was very dangerous indeed, but would see an unnecessarily far distance. Again that information was met with more immediate scoffery from...guess where? :rolleyes:

All this nonsense and trolling actually made me look much closer into the regulations, product safety specs, biological exposure limits, etc. far more deeply than I ever would have otherwise. It was after this that I realised it was possible to make a laser based illuminator with more than enough power, that is no more dangerous to use than a standard LED illuminator. So the Dark Engine was born. Bearing in mind that the Dark Engine will get out to 700+ yards even with a rubbish add on, it bears the question...is a more powerful IR really necessary? The Dark Engine is also the smallest, lightest and cheapest of these new illuminators. :thumb:

Just touching on what you call "absolute verbal diarrhoea" regarding our Black Sun pills. If you made something out of top drawer components, with the best design and careful controlled manufacturing process to make the absolute highest quality, most efficient and best performing product possible...I'm sure you would also mention that as a benefit to your customers and be rightly proud of it as we are. Otherwise it could be something slapped together from any old tat on someone's kitchen table.


Cheers





Clive

Clive your totally full of it...but hey ho, some people buy into it....my gripe is directed at the point you actively pointed out lasers were of no benefit for many reasons and got onto Trevor regarding them and questioning the safety of his torch.... then VSCEL diode links appear and your all over it and there great...
 
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Hi All,

Yes much more power than a Sunnranger Ruby and much more covert as the Dark Engine is 850nm. Combined with the small die size and lens system / coatings the visible signature is very small. It's also quite a lot lighter and smaller.


Cheers





Clive

Would you ever consider 940 be version? I don’t need 600 yards but some animals definitely see and react to 850.

I realise digi NV is fat less sensitive but if a high intensity 940 bought 250 yards with my WDV 700 it would be very useful!
 
243 hunter why dont you send one off yours then and il test it as i have nothing to gain in this bun fight have i told eney one eney thing bad about your ir no i triyed clives and told members on hear what i thought off it end off. it was better than this model or that model i did not say it was the best ir in the world as im sure there are more powerful ir lazers out there but is clives being sold as the most powerfull unit out there not that i know. there is competitive side to this debate which is not going in the right direction it will onley lead to insulting each other and thats not good sportsmanship life is to short
 
243 hunter why dont you send one off yours then and il test it as i have nothing to gain in this bun fight have i told eney one eney thing bad about your ir no i triyed clives and told members on hear what i thought off it end off. it was better than this model or that model i did not say it was the best ir in the world as im sure there are more powerful ir lazers out there but is clives being sold as the most powerfull unit out there not that i know. there is competitive side to this debate which is not going in the right direction it will onley lead to insulting each other and thats not good sportsmanship life is to short

There not my torches Wraith there Trevor Cartrights he produces the Solaris SRX torch, any of the VSCEL style torches will be great with night vision whoever you buy it from there's about 5 manufacturers now with these diodes and there all pretty similar bar the fact, some have larger lenses and produce an even more intense beam that's better for the highest mag ranges, some have built in power indicators and some have longer warranties... they will all be great.

I was out tonight and testing a Sirius torch on 20x magnification watching a badger 300yds away the image was crystal clear, this was using an NV007 , a £400 rear add on, to be able to wind the mag up to 20x when normally you would lose an incredible amount of IR transmission at this level and still have a crystal image, just shows how far things have come...

There is no competitive side I can assure you, I just don't like charlatans....
 
There not my torches Wraith there Trevor Cartrights he produces the Solaris SRX torch, any of the VSCEL style torches will be great with night vision whoever you buy it from there's about 5 manufacturers now with these diodes and there all pretty similar bar the fact, some have larger lenses and produce an even more intense beam that's better for the highest mag ranges, some have built in power indicators and some have longer warranties... they will all be great.

I was out tonight and testing a Sirius torch on 20x magnification watching a badger 300yds away the image was crystal clear, this was using an NV007 , a £400 rear add on, to be able to wind the mag up to 20x when normally you would lose an incredible amount of IR transmission at this level and still have a crystal image, just shows how far things have come...

There is no competitive side I can assure you, I just don't like charlatans....
ok thanks for that
 
...got onto Trevor regarding them and questioning the safety of his torch....

Ian,

It seems that you may think that it's a brilliant business practice to say untrue things about another company in an attempt to damage them, but really it isn't the greatest strategy. You won't find any business in any industry doing it. I'm sure I don't have to paint a picture as to why.

Anyway this constant trolling is getting a bit tedious.

I suggest a solution.

If you can provide evidence that I have anywhere publicly mentioned Trevor or indeed his SRX product by name and said directly that it was unsafe I will happily donate £1000 to a charity of your choice on your behalf.

However if you can't provide this, then I would expect you to do the same and donate £1000 to a charity of my choice on my behalf.

I think that's a fair and gentlemanly solution.


Cheers





Clive
 
Ian,

It seems that you may think that it's a brilliant business practice to say untrue things about another company in an attempt to damage them, but really it isn't the greatest strategy. You won't find any business in any industry doing it. I'm sure I don't have to paint a picture as to why.

Anyway this constant trolling is getting a bit tedious.

I suggest a solution.

If you can provide evidence that I have anywhere publicly mentioned Trevor or indeed his SRX product by name and said directly that it was unsafe I will happily donate £1000 to a charity of your choice on your behalf.

However if you can't provide this, then I would expect you to do the same and donate £1000 to a charity of my choice on my behalf.

I think that's a fair and gentlemanly solution.


Cheers





Clive
Watch this space
 
Ian,

It seems that you may think that it's a brilliant business practice to say untrue things about another company in an attempt to damage them, but really it isn't the greatest strategy. You won't find any business in any industry doing it. I'm sure I don't have to paint a picture as to why.

Anyway this constant trolling is getting a bit tedious.

I suggest a solution.

If you can provide evidence that I have anywhere publicly mentioned Trevor or indeed his SRX product by name and said directly that it was unsafe I will happily donate £1000 to a charity of your choice on your behalf.

However if you can't provide this, then I would expect you to do the same and donate £1000 to a charity of my choice on my behalf.

I think that's a fair and gentlemanly solution.


Cheers





Clive

Clive you do more damage yourself than anyone else. A quick google and the internet is littered with complaints about yourself across all the forums over the past god knows how many years.. I don't need to say anything damaging, you do an absolutley outstanding job of that yourself...

Even Trevor thought you were insinuating and replied with comments, which to be fair you were, no ifs or buts...view across the NV forum your comments regarding laser torches and dislike to them, now your like a rash all over..complete U turn.. some links below.

I wish you every success in what you do, just try to have a few morals and a little integrity about the way you go about things.....
 
Hi All,

I think I've mentioned it before but these new super lasers being punted by various people are starting to fall into the category of 'just because you can do something, it doesn't necessarily mean you should'.

With advances in LEDs over the past few years, the limiting factor now is system resolution, rather than IR power. I noticed it with our Digiceptor. With a Black Sunnranger Ruby that will give full illumination so the camera isn't doing any work at 600 yards. The IR we suggest for that scope is the much smaller and lighter Black Sun Ruby BR20 which does the same at 300 yards which is a more sensible range and a much lighter, more compact illuminator.

Lasers are a very easy way to get a lot of power. The problem with lasers is the type of power they emit. It's coherent light in a constant wave, very much like DC power, following on that analogy, LED is more like AC and far safer. This difference in type of light also damages the eye's tissue very differently and indeed it's power is less noticeable but more damaging.

Coherent light from a laser will directly damage the retina without any sensation, whereas if you were daft enough to stare down an IR LED it will initially interact with the outer layer of the cornea which can be felt and avoided.

There are safety concerns with these types of laser illuminator. I ran the quoted numbers of one of them through our software and the result for the no optical hazard distance was around 30m! When I actually tested one of these lasers on our power meter it was in excess of its quoted 500mW Class 3B rating and fell well into Class 4.
:thumbdown:


I know that some people selling these are quoting British Standards, power ratings and classifications, etc. But I don't really think they fully understand them. Class 3B is a designation and not all Class 3B lasers are automatically 'safe' and suitable for use by general consumers. They have to be designed so that the user, even a qualified, well informed user, is not exposed to or can be harmed by the radiation when the product is being used. An essentially handheld product with a NOHD of 30m doesn't really fit into that category as being safe for use.

The one I tested was actually Class 4 with en even greater NOHD and isn't suitable for consumer use at all.

There's a Sunnranger type laser IR looming and that will more than likely use the same laser diode, but with an bigger lens, collimating the beam tighter and making an even more dangerous product.

We've ridden this roundabout before with the 500mW Chinese laser illuminators but I think Facebook and it's general ease of shilling tat has caused these to gain traction once more sadly.

Personally if you can't see far enough, then upgrade your NV, rather then bunging a dangerous laser on it to make up for it's inadequacies.
:thumbup:



Cheers

Clive

Posted under the topic "Solaris SRX" laser illuminator which is made by Trevor. The post was on the Nightvisionforumuk.
 
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Come on we all know that was a general post not directed at any one manufacturer. It's quite clear if you read with 'fresh eyes'. I've even re-read the entire thread and at the time none of what I mentioned was questioned. Nobody piped up thinking they were being singled out.

Curious that anyone would think I was talking about their product in particular because as far as I'm aware ALL of these new lasers (except the Dark Engine) are wearing Class 3B <500mW laser safety labels, so none of them would have measured over on our power meter would they?

Best keep googling Ian.


Cheers





Clive
 
Silly IR laser thread? Just try not to feed people too much bollocks, because your good at spinning things..
All the best with your ventures..

Yes where we built one to show how easy it was to make a dangerous product with masses of power. Still no reference to any manufacturer was made as it was a prototype test product being discussed to aid in consumer awareness.

Several other manufacturers products were mentioned by others on the thread without any comment from myself. In fact my input into the whole thread was very limited.

One manufacturer did try to goad me into saying something directly about their product, but I ignored the ploy.

Back to google then Ian.


Cheers





Clive
 
Hi All,

We're finally in production with our new Black Sun Dark Engine IR illuminator now and it can be ordered from our website here:

Black Sun Dark Engine IR Illuminator

Essentially we have applied our knowledge of very high efficiency LED illuminators and pills to the new generation of laser diodes. Through careful design and experience with laser safety, the dark engine does not fall under laser safety laws and is no more hazardous in normal use than an LED illuminator.

Obvious advantages are it's very light at 200g making it the smallest and lightest. A sunnranger or derivitive is over 50% heavier and bulkier.

In terms of power it has more than enough. Even on the Pard 007 which has a poor response to IR, it will produce a very good image at even 400 yards at 10x magnification. On better systems such as the Ward D Vision 800L it will get out to 600 yards happily.

There is a video on the product page taken with the Pard 007 behind and MTC Mamba out to 400 yards for reference.


Cheers





Clive

Ordered mine on the 27th of May..... not received it, I’ve emailed twice to see what’s happening, fully understand things are not normal currently but just wanted an up date but no reply or nothing..... help?
 
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