Blaser r93

[megsjockey]

So what practical activities will you be undertaking to get it done?

Specifically, which 'it' are you referring to?

I was referring to the existence of opportunity to play devils advocate until the cows come home, which I hereby and furthermore do formally decline to do (in this thread) Why? 'cause people get oddly fed up with me doing it. It is probably a quirk of mine that I actually enjoy doing it though. So, sorry.

 

[Sauer90]

I think you're falling to the temptation in discussion of, when you don't like the premise under discussion you'll just change the premise and have a discussion about that instead. It's what politicians do all the time when being asked questions they don't want to answer i.e. they'll evade by choosing to answer a different question to the one that was actually asked.

What am I talking about?

Well, the video posted, showing a selection of various brands of rifles' barrels 'erupting', was made by first blocking the barrels of those rifles and testing to see where they would fail by firing a cartridge off in them. The quite horrific injuries that have been reported by unfortunate R93 owners don't seem to arise as a result of barrel explosions, per se. That is to say the video has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue that seems to be being put forward as a potentially real problem for Blaser owners. The actual Blaser issue seems, from all the threads across many forums that I've seen it discussed in, to be narrowed down to a specific matter of catastrophic cartridge case failure and the consequent 'unlocking' and launching of Blaser bolts and their attendant closing mechanisms backwards, which has been caused by the back flow of gas and the effect that has on the bolt locking, into and injuring the hands and faces of those unfortunate souls behind the trigger when it has all gone mammaries skyward.

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I note quite a few people have on this and other threads failed to address the actual issue that's up for discussion, apparently preferring instead to evade it and deflect to a different issue.

Well making some unfounded assumptions does not help either, catastrophic case failure - give us a break.
You do know that the cartridge case is only there to hold the bullet and charge? It is not there to contain the pressure. You might want to look at the modulus of elasticity in relation to cartridge brass.
"Unlocking of the bolt", again look at the published photos again, you will see they have not been 'unlocked'.
Amazes me that guys who might know which end of a screwdriver you use can comment on engineering design and forensic examination.
Whhaaaay too much bs....

 

[willie_gunn]

Specifically, which 'it' are you referring to?

I was referring to the existence of opportunity to play devils advocate until the cows come home, which I hereby and furthermore do formally decline to do (in this thread) Why? 'cause people get oddly fed up with me doing it.

You have raised a question:

Do we know that 'deals' have never been done, out of court?

What will you be doing to prove or disprove this statement?

 

[achosenman]

A mystery usually has its explanations. Do we know that 'deals' have never been done, out of court? Ok, I'll leave the 'playing devils advocate' to others now. Folk generally just get tee'd off with me when I start doing it, but the fact remains; it is there to be done.

The trouble with that theory is it doesn't solve the problem for Blaser. A cosy conspiracy deal only makes the one case disappear. They've around 160,000 waiting in the wings. All a person has to do is buy an R93 then file in the local court house and get rich.

I suppose denial could be the strategy, but I'd go with the more likely scenario that there is no denial because there is no proven fault yet. Also it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Blaser didn't have some highly qualified engineers knocking around the building someplace. They have probably been asked to look at the speculation/ accusations and comment to the Blaser Board. I suspect they don't post on internet forums though.

Atb

 

[megsjockey]

Well making some unfounded assumptions does not help either, catastrophic case failure - give us a break.
You do know that the cartridge case is only there to hold the bullet and charge? It is not there to contain the pressure. You might want to look at the modulus of elasticity in relation to cartridge brass.
"Unlocking of the bolt", again look at the published photos again, you will see they have not been 'unlocked'.
Amazes me that guys who might know which end of a screwdriver you use can comment on engineering design and forensic examination.
Whhaaaay too much bs....

High pressure gas flows rather more willingly than brass though, yes? And, I always thought the case was meant to provide obduration, in 'conventional' rifles and long-arms. Of course, maybe I've got it wrong.

As far as the photographic evidence presented, if I recall correctly the 'fingers' of the locking assemblage looked rather severely removed from the locked position, by the time they made contact with hands and faces but I'm no forensic engineer. Would those 'fingers' necessarily be damaged or undamaged through being forced to 'unlock' by the supposed 'culprit', escaping gas pressure?

 

[megsjockey]

You have raised a question:



What will you be doing to prove or disprove this statement?

willie

Do we know that 'deals' have never been done, out of court?

is a question... it is NOT a statement and I most certainly neither have the answer nor the resources or inclination to pursue one. Although, if any friend or family of mine suffers a Blaser related injury that last 'statement' would get a review.

 

[megsjockey]

@Sauer90, just to clarify, the only assertions I'm making are that there is a crux to the argument, which is a 'crux' that I note as being almost 'studiously' disregarded. Others are actually putting the argument, not me. I have no direct involvement with any of these issues.

 

[Sauer90]

@Sauer90, just to clarify, the only assertions I'm making are that there is a crux to the argument, which is a 'crux' that I note as being almost 'studiously' disregarded. Others are actually putting the argument, not me. I have no direct involvement with any of these issues.

Yet another strawman argument then, brings nothing new to the table.

 

[willie_gunn]

willie is a question... it is NOT a statement and I most certainly neither have the answer nor the resources or inclination to pursue one.

Thank you, case proven.

 

[Vipa]

Sadly a waste of cash, but I wish someone would do an ultra slow mo of a traditionally bolted rifle going south with the locking lugs removed/disengaged and therefore just relying in the bolt handle recess to absorb the rearward forces with a massively overloaded cartridge and/or blocked barrel..

I have a feeling (although I may be wrong) that either the bolt handle would shear and the bolt would come straight back in exactly the same way a blaser would if all the petals failed.. or it would pivot upwards and backwards on the bolt handle and strike the shooter higher up in the head, although there could be some deflection off the scope tube...

Come on slow-mo guys lets have a look see!

 

[megsjockey]

Thank you, case proven.

I beg your pardon. What case are you proclaiming as "proven"?

 

[megsjockey]

Yet another strawman argument then, brings nothing new to the table.

I am not making any argument at all.

 

[timbrayford]

No one on SD has come forward to say that they have firsthand experience of their Blaser r93 blowing up on them, by way of contrast a few have reported problems with .17HMR ammunition with rifles of various makes in that calibre. Odd isn't it?

atb Tim

 

[willie_gunn]

I beg your pardon. What case are you proclaiming as "proven"?

That this is an entirely meaningless debate, because none of those from either side who raise the questions - whether actual or theoretical - have any incentive to actually seek the answers. That's always for someone else to do, but of course no-one ever does.

You might as well blame the incidents on little green men from Mars, alien lizards or the faeries at the bottom of the garden, since none of these can be proven to be untrue either.

Thus we are destined to continue in the endless cycle of opinions, claims, counter-claims and accusations, with no realistic prospect of ever reaching any sort of meaningful conclusion.

 

[megsjockey]

I thought you declared the case proven. Make your mind up please.

 

[willie_gunn]

I thought you declared the case proven. Make your mind up please.

Sorry, I thought it was clear. I will put it more plainly:

"Those raising questions want answers, but only so long as there is no effort on their behalf."

Since none of those raising questions is willing to invest any effort, we will never have answers.

 

[Wills]

Im a bit lost with this thread. Seems we are at the two camps (again) with the R93 (awesome or potential death trap). Quiet on the R8 as no one has had an accident with one yet...and it been publicised. Correct?

 

[willie_gunn]

Im a bit lost with this thread. Seems we are at the two camps (again) with the R93 (awesome or potential death trap). Quiet on the R8 as no one has had an accident with one yet...and it been publicised. Correct?

Pretty much, though I might disagree that anyone - at least in this thread - has claimed the R93 is "awesome". Rather that it's an accurate, pointable, safe and convenient working tool....not exactly revolutionary stuff, is it?

 

[Wills]

Must admit, my r93 was just as you describe. Only thing that irritated was the occasional dead mans click of the round not going off and noise of cycling the action.. Oh and that plastic clip magazine thingy that I kept loosing when the bolt was out. Just got a 6.5 on my licence and bought a t3 lite second hand. May trade in possibly for an R8... Maybe. I only got the 6.5 to try, as I have a 243 and 270. I don't like the magazine arrangement for the R8. I would sooner have a spare additional mag. The sauer 404 looks interesting, but need to handle one away from the marketing guff we all get bombarded with. Then there is the sako 85 Finnlite which I like too.

 

[ejg]

Well making some unfounded assumptions does not help either, catastrophic case failure - give us a break.
You do know that the cartridge case is only there to hold the bullet and charge? It is not there to contain the pressure. You might want to look at the modulus of elasticity in relation to cartridge brass.
"Unlocking of the bolt", again look at the published photos again, you will see they have not been 'unlocked'.
Amazes me that guys who might know which end of a screwdriver you use can comment on engineering design and forensic examination.
Whhaaaay too much bs....

You do not seem to know much about engineering or rifles or cartridges, of course a cartridge must contain pressure. The higher the cartridge pressure the thicker the brass. +P cartridges get thicker brass cases. If overpressure and a case ruptures, where do gases escape to?

edi