Blaser r93

Sort of puts paid to ejg's many argument.
There is an internet page that describes a 'design flaw' regarding the camming of the collet assy, but it is written by someone who patently does not understand the operation, probably the same design flaw bull that gets repeated here.
 
The R93 'blow ups' have all been user error. The most recent one I recall the bloke was spraying the chamber of the rifle with lubricant shot after shot because he was finding cartridge extraction a bit stiff.... And the one previous, that has been mentioned, was a .300 Wby filled with pistol powder...
For whatever reason some people take a disliking to Blasers, and accidents involving them attract interest and stories get disseminated. I'm sure there have been many accidents around the world with various brands of rifle, but they just don't garner the same level of interest.
 
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I've spoke to a good friend who has 30 years of stalking under his belt and voiced my concerns to him. He put my mind at rest and after doing some more digging I seem to notice that every incident seems to involve overcharged home loads or human error.

To me it suggests the design is inherently sound. I actually work alongside a team of German structural engineers and seeing and hearing there work philosophy and the quality of the work makes me seriously doubt that any German company would produce such a dangerous product let alone get away with it and cover it up in such litigious times.

after watching caorach's video as well it's even more reassuring.
 
As I said and many know, if the blaser action is locked it will take pressure.
Many R93's have taken the faces out of their owners, not only one. Even if pistol powder or obstruction would make an action blow up it should not come out the back. The design is flawed.
edi

One instance of this is obviously too many.

You state that "Many R93's have taken the faces out of their owners"…How many exactly do you know of? And could you back that up with any actual evidence?

If as mentioned above 160,000 are in circulation what sort of percentage are you claiming have failed as a result of poor rifle design rather than faulty ammunition or user error?

In all the internet reading I have done about the R93 I have seen two reported incidents. Both of them user error. I think one was in Austria and one in Sweden. On another site I read of one Australian who claimed to have witnessed an accident at a range, but on questioning his responses became more and more bizarre and he disappeared from the thread when he was asked to name the date and place for corroboration.

I have a vested interest in this, I have an R93 which I was going to upgrade to an R8 success what you are claiming may effect the resale value of my gun hugely…facts please.

Alan
 
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Thanks for posting. I've been looking for that clip. The more you look into these so called Blaser blow-ups the more you realise it was a Darwin Award attempt on the part of the owner/operator. Being an R8 owner myself I want the truth, even if it's not what I want to hear. So far the reported shenanigans of the blow-upees is astounding. Some people are so stupid, if breathing wasn't a reflex, they'd suffocate.

If it was me I'd get the R93 and enjoy one of the most accurate, repeatable and easy to live with stalking rifles you can get. This is from someone who spent a fortune having custom rifles made to order over the last 15 years.

Atb

Sound advice, I have previously owned an R93 but traded it in for an R8, both are extremely good accurate and easy to use rifles.
I'm happy to use either.

atb Tim
 
A Google translate of a article in this months Svenskjakt

Published April 16, 2015 - 10:56 - Updated May 13 2015 - 10:50
Therefore, the accident occurred shooting
Christer Svensson came close to dying at the nasty slide accident last summer. Photo: Private
Christer Svensson came close to dying at the nasty slide accident last summer. Photo: Private
A hunter was near death when a serious shooting incident with a Blaser R 93 last summer. Now an independent expert's report stated what caused the accident.



It was the end of July last summer shooting accident. Hunter Christer Svensson, 69, from Bollnäs was near death when his Blaser exploded and he got the final piece in the face.
The accident occurred in connection with that Christer would push her one year old Blaser R 93. He used the factory loaded hunting ammunition in caliber .30-06. He had fired three shots before the accident occurred.
When he fired the gun a fourth time something went wrong. Parts of the bolt flew straight back and met Christer face and smashed cheekbone. TMJ went by and even thumb joint was shattered in the violent blast.
- I'm glad I survived, he told the Swedish Hunting.


Caused by munitions
After the shooting incident occurred speculation about what caused the explosion of a Blaser R93 rifle. An expert study now shows that the weapons the explosion was due to a pressure caused by the ammunition.
The weapon has been examined by the independent DEVA-Institute in Germany (Deutsche Versuchs- und Prüfanstalt für Jagd und Sportwaffen eV) and the expert report shows explicitly that the excess gas pressure caused by the ammunition caused the accident.
"The damage to the weapon caused almost certainly caused by overpressure of cartridge in combination with an error in the cartridge casing ...".
The conclusion is therefore that the experts rule out any fault on the weapon and also that any error would have occurred in the operation. The bolt had been locked.
 
Sort of puts paid to ejg's many argument.
There is an internet page that describes a 'design flaw' regarding the camming of the collet assy, but it is written by someone who patently does not understand the operation, probably the same design flaw bull that gets repeated here.

In the unfortunate event of a case rupturing, where does the escaping gas go, in the r93 design? and what effect might that high pressure, escaping, gas actually have? I believe the answers put forward to these questions was the crux of the argument in another recent thread discussing the r93 design.
 
Why do you think that there are not much details on the accidents that have happened?

Blaser paid for the Examination of the R93 and is therefore the owner of the examiniton report. They do not have to publish all the info.

Of course all of that is s p e c u l a t i v e and in the end all we know is that a number of them have blown up and because of the open straight pull design the bolt body will most definitely blow back into your face.

That is a R i s k to concider, and that is the reason why I wouldnt put my face behind such rifle.
 
I think I've opened up a can of worms here haven't I...there are some valid points from both sides of the coin, but there's also some sensationalist/conspiracy theory stuff being thrown about.

at the end of the day if you take into account the amount of R93's in circulation (the last figure I could find was 160,000 and that was from a 10 year old forum post) and the amount of people who's rifles bolts has blown up not sure of a figure but I've found 3. If anyone can do the maths and work the percentage out as I'm rubbish at maths I'm sure it's a very very tiny percentage.

The flip side as drl pointed out is that as a straight pull is what it says it is and the bolt can only go back with no turn bolt acting as a third lug that is indeed a risk that if it did go it can cause massive damage....but to that I would say from the numbers of people it's happened to I've got more chance of winning the euro millions twice.

like I said in my earlier post I simply cannot see a company of blasers reputation being able to get away with selling a product that could potentially kill its customers, that's where all the conspiracy theorists can start saying they covered it up but this is a gun company not a corrupt third world government
 
In the unfortunate event of a case rupturing, where does the escaping gas go, in the r93 design? and what effect might that high pressure, escaping, gas actually have? I believe the answers put forward to these questions was the crux of the argument in another recent thread discussing the r93 design.

Why don't you go on over to UKV. A member had three primers blow out and not just pierced, with all that high pressure gas escaping about a week ago. I spoke to him on the phone about it after. He suffered no injury but I believe the ejector seized up. So I suppose the gas escape ports on the R93 must have worked as intended. I've had pierced primers with a Stiller Tac 30 and an LRS2 in 223 due to a batch of faulty primers. The only damage was to the traditionally designed Tac 30 bolt face, it needed skimming.

Atb
 
Why don't you go on over to UKV. A member had three primers blow out and not just pierced, with all that high pressure gas escaping about a week ago. I spoke to him on the phone about it after. He suffered no injury but I believe the ejector seized up. So I suppose the gas escape ports on the R93 must have worked as intended. I've had pierced primers with a Stiller Tac 30 and an LRS2 in 223 due to a batch of faulty primers. The only damage was to the traditionally designed Tac 30 bolt face, it needed skimming.

Atb

The primers 'blew out'? Where did the primer cups go? Didn't the flash hole still operate as a pressure reducer too? With respect, I really can't see a primer issue equating to a full-on case rupture. And, to be honest I couldn't actually give a flying proverbial about the different 'sides' in all of this Blaser/Marmite scene. I'm completely neutral.
 
Well obviously the primers were still rattling around in the mix. Looking at the case head expansion I bet he never had to de-cap afterwards.


Go over to UKV, go to the Hand loading Forum and lookup the Complacent Reloading thread. A picture paints a thousand words.

As for case rupture, well we're firmly into "grenade" territory and all bets are off as with any rifle.

Atb
 
I know of 7 accidents that have happened and can be verified via news articles. And also a recall on earlier models.

In the end you just have to acknowledge that there have been accidents with the R93, there will be more coming and it is in your hands if the next potential victim is going to be you.
 
There's been recalls on loads of different firearms

You could have an accident with any rifle not just blasers. Remember I'm on the fence here I don't own a blaser but I am interested in buying one, so really I'm sitting on the fence. But what I've seen hasn't convinced me not to buy one
 
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In WW2 the Soviets dropped crates of 8x57 ammo filled with explosives, nothing but blast barrels on Mauser 98s
The bolt body is just the weakest link in the blaser r93.

I am not here to convince you of anything just dont be a fanboy.
You asked for the concerns I have so here they are.
 
But what I've seen hasn't convinced me not to buy one

I'm an engineer by trade, though not a mechanical engineer so I've no specialist knowledge of rifle design but that doesn't stop me wanting all the details before I make a decision, so you can imagine I looked into this before buying my R93 and concluded that there had been some "accidents" but that I could find no evidence of a design flaw in the rifle, in fact some of the "accidents" indicated just how far you had to go to blow a Blaser up, and this is supported by the video I posted earlier where the Blaser is clearly seen to be stronger than many other popular rifles. The few, maybe even one as I can't remember now, detailed reports of accidents involving Blasers that I read gave me greater confidence in the rifle rather than less as the mistakes made were significant and resulted in the most extreme operating conditions and the rifle performed well beyond normal conditions and most likely gave lots of indication to the user that it was operating well beyond its design limits before it let go.

I also watched the posts of the people who were making a big deal of the "Blaser blow ups" and concluded that they were not, generally speaking, reliable sources of information and, indeed, some seemed to almost be building part of their life around an "anti-Blaser" campaign. This is perfectly reasonable and they are entitled to do this, but I didn't find any information to lead me to consider that they were a reliable source, or more reliable than the design engineers, laws of physics etc. I'm not dismissing well founded concerns or strongly held opinions, but I am saying that I found they had no place in my decision making when it came to choosing a rifle.

The other point to consider is that everything will fail and everything ever built has something that will be the first part to fail. Some are saying that with Blaser this may be the bolt which will then come straight back at the user and this makes Blasers bad compared to other rifles. Then you do a bit of research and find that there is evidence of other rifles blowing up, and the bolt coming back at the shooter and there is actually video of it happening on the internet! If you go to all the trouble to blow something up it should come as no surprise to find that some of the bits fly off in directions you'd hoped they wouldn't.

So, all I can conclude is that having a rifle blow up is a bad thing and has the potential to end very badly. Blasers are very well engineered and constructed and so handle pressure and a failure better than most but if you push your luck then even a Blaser will blow your head off. Sometimes rifles, including but not limited to Blasers, fail and the bolt comes back at the shooter and this is very bad indeed. Logically the only information gained from my conclusions was that the only way to avoid blowing a rifle up is either not to own one, no matter who makes it, or to be careful when using it. I decided that the latter approach was for me and bought a Blaser.
 
In WW2 the Soviets dropped crates of 8x57 ammo filled with explosives, nothing but blast barrels on Mauser 98s
The bolt body is just the weakest link in the blaser r93.

I am not here to convince you of anything just dont be a fanboy.
You asked for the concerns I have so here they are.

Wow, for someone who only joined two days ago and who, according to their introduction is "still young and looking to learn the ways and means of other hunters. And also to improve my english skills." can I just say how impressed I am with those English skills :tiphat:

With words like "fanboy" in your vocabulary you really don''t need to improve at all :thumb:

For someone still so young to know about the Soviets and their 8x57 ammo is equally impressive. Where did you hear about that? It triggered my memory, as I'd never even heard about it until I read it in post #9 in this thread: Another Blaser

IN WW2 Russian forces apparently dropped off 8x57 ammo that was loaded with explosives instead of propellant. The 98's that blew up didn't have any bolts flying out the back.
Any rifle can and will blow up if things go awry for whatever reason. Blaser and every person involved in rifle design knows this and still Blaser designed an action that flies back into the face of the user when it ruptures. I think that is the issue. A problem that was actually resolved before 1900. The R93 is by design not safe or lacks of safety features. The Mauser brothers seemed way ahead many decades earlier.

I would not let my kids shoot a R93,
actually a company that designs and stands behind a design such as the R93 I would not trust any product.
edi

Remarkable!
 
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‎A Blaser won't blow up simply by a change of IP address!

I wish I'd known about all this before putting my face alongside 1000 rounds ‎of 223 at "Bisley Live" some years ago when my only concern was to retain all fingers as over-eager Punters sought to slam the bolt assembly shut on them!

K‎
 
Back in the 60s when I was "serving my time" an Italian WW2 mitiliary rifle turned up.
not having any ammunition for it a couple of the older men turned up cartridges from solid brass, primed them with Berdan pistol primers and loaded them with ICI shotgun powder.
When the trigger was pulled, surprise, suprise. The bolt blew back. Hit George in the face just below his eye.
As the rifle was a "sleeper" as we called unregistered firearms then. He was reluctant to go to hospital for treatment.
He bore the scars until he died.
Please remember that this happened a long time ago.
Today with all the information available, there is no excuse for incidents like this.
 
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