Brass, how many reloads?

[Lateral]

It also depends on application.

For the handloads I do for driven boar, it isn't critical, because +/- 1" at 100yds, won't make the blindest difference.

For the rifle I use for head shooting boar at night, I take more care, and for the 300NM, intended for long range, I anneal after every firing, to get consistent neck tension, which will make a difference.

 

[dropmdead]

in my 6.5x47 I had over 30+ firings with no discernable difference over the span, and given there were no crack in the necks, primer pocket was still tight, and still gave sub moa at 1k yards...
With loose primer pockets, this can come about from not sizing the case enough at the base - most dies size down to the web, not the base.

As for case prep, yes its a hunting rifle o either be happy to loose the case early (poor inconsistent case prep), run factory ammo and not mind about the case, or if you look after every case after firing, do the same repeatable process every time with the correct tools, your brass should last every long time.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
Signs such as loose primer pockets , imminent case separation and a failure to size correctly should be obvious to any reloader worth his salt“.
Sound advice - these and other signs should be detected either before you put powder or bullets anywhere near your brass or before you consider using them in the field.
Loose Primer Pockets - should be obvious by lack of effort to seat - confirm by inverting a primer and trying to pick it up with the case primer pocket. If the primer can be picked up the case is suspect, if the primer slips in it is a scrapper;
Imminent (Incipient) Case Separation - look for a thin ring/line or part thereof just forward of the case base and check the case inside wall with bent sharpened piece of thin metal - paperclip will do. Any internal problems identified means a scrapper;
Resize failure - detectable at point of seating the bullet - too easy - measure COAL then push reloaded bullet nose firmly against your bench then remeasure COAL - any reduction means your neck tension is wrong and die needs adjustment. Too difficult - pretty evident - die needs adjustment.
Other indications are available……..

 

[Utectok]

I have always found primer pockets go first, but I alway anneal necks

 

[User00040]

With loose primer pockets, this can come about from not sizing the case enough at the base - most dies size down to the web, not the base.

No, even a small base die which sizes the base of the case will not have an effect on the primer pocket in a centrefire case.


Hart made a tool to swage the inside of the primer pocket, and it supposedly worked but reviews are mixed, says something that it's discontinued... R W Hart Case Saver Swage Large Primer Pockets

A primer serves the twin purpose of igniting the powder charge and subsequently containing the pressure produced when powder deflagrates within the case, causing the bullet to be dislodged from the case neck and make it's way down the barrel.

If you look up 'muzzle loader breech plug' it becomes evident how well a modern centrfire rifle case does it's job, as the work required to make a rifle fire without a brass case is stupendous.

Blown primers can be a sign that the primer failed to contain the pressure properly (in factory ammo, primers usually move forward a little when the firing pin strikes the anvil, but the primer and case head are thrust firmly back into the bolt, usually engraving the surface of the bolt into a soft primer, see photo below, bottom case is factory PPU with it's hard primer, top one is reloaded with a Federal 210M primer, shitty Remington boltface firmly engraved into the top one )





A tiny bit of wear/gas cutting on the bolt from the interface between primer and primer pocket will usually be visible, even with factory ammunition at regulated pressures. See this Tikka boltface, only fired factory ammo.



Ultimately, a brass case is consumable/disposable. It is the most costly component of ammunition to produce (although copper bullets are doing well to displace this...), so it's best to save them for further re-use.

When you are dealing with pressures above 50k Psi next to your head/face, saving money should not be a factor...

 

[dropmdead]

When you are dealing with pressures above 50k Psi next to your head/face, saving money should not be a factor...

100% agree

reloading isnt always about savings, but thinking you may produce better for your rifle, or if factory ammo in expanding variety isnt available

 

[User00044]

Hmmm.
Signs such as loose primer pockets , imminent case separation and a failure to size correctly should be obvious to any reloader worth his salt“.
Sound advice - these and other signs should be detected either before you put powder or bullets anywhere near your brass or before you consider using them in the field.
Loose Primer Pockets - should be obvious by lack of effort to seat - confirm by inverting a primer and trying to pick it up with the case primer pocket. If the primer can be picked up the case is suspect, if the primer slips in it is a scrapper;
Imminent (Incipient) Case Separation - look for a thin ring/line or part thereof just forward of the case base and check the case inside wall with bent sharpened piece of thin metal - paperclip will do. Any internal problems identified means a scrapper;
Resize failure - detectable at point of seating the bullet - too easy - measure COAL then push reloaded bullet nose firmly against your bench then remeasure COAL - any reduction means your neck tension is wrong and die needs adjustment. Too difficult - pretty evident - die needs adjustment.
Other indications are available……..


I explained my examples poorly . Ms bad !
My point was that resize failure after multiple firings is an indicator of work hardening of the brass . You may well be able to resize by more aggressive sizing but how long before neck splits appear ? Of course, there's always annealing.

 

[G1963]

I had some 260 Rem that I fired 12 times. I have some 6.5 Creedmoor Norma brass that will be fired 7 times and scrapped as the primer pockets are getting looser. As above, there are a myriad of factors to consider. Ultimately, it's your call as you are doing the reloading and then shooting it. I've read of 6PPC and .222 Rem being reloaded in excess of 30 times.
Regards
JCS

222 yes I'm on my 15th time

 

[Mr lead free]

most lower cost/quality brass brands you might only get 4-6 firings. If you use higher end quality brass and anneal you can really extend the life of the brass past 10 firing but also the quality of the dies ir really important as some cheap dies don't resize with consistent pressure all along the case and you can find this promotes weak spots on the body of the case leading to fractures.

 

[MAH]

How many times can I reload the brass before I need to scrap it?

That's a great question.
I'd say it depends on what type of shooting you do, e.g.
Those who are in to bench rest shooting will have a different view to those go staking or shoot running boar.

In Bench Rest, I can understand how Neck Tension might be a consideration to someone who has already eliminated many of the common variables that influence accuracy. Getting a 5" group at a 1000 yards is very impressive.

But for stalking your bullet needs to hit a 5" target at 100 to 150 yards..
The biggest variables are estimated distance, shooting from sticks, or the adrenaline of the hunt. I just can't see neck tension being a consideration.

I FL resize.
Before hand priming i check for splits. Which are usually at the neck or shoulder.

I don't count how many reloads but I'd guess around 10 before splits occurred.

Occasionally I miss a split and I feel the difference in applied force as I load the bullet. Which I then inspect and pull.

M

 

[Lancaster]

looking for some advice guys if possible please? I’ve got a RCBS full length die for my .270 and 6.5x55.

How many times can I reload the brass before I need to scrap it? And does it vary with caliber? My oldest stuff for the .270 has been fired 3 times so, once from new, and then reloaded and shot a further twice.


Last thing I want is so pull X number of rounds together only to find I should have bought new cases.


Thanks!

Other peoples experience may vary, but I will never use Fed brass again in my .270, twice fired, once with factory, once with reloads and the primer pockets were slack as hell.
Not hot home loads, middle of the road, but ended up scrapping the cases.
I now use Norma and absolutely no issues, annealed after every 3rd use, pockets still tight.

 

[timbrayford]

Quality of brass has some bearing on longevity, eg. I've reloaded Lapua cases with the majority of them lasting for 16 - 24 firings with neck splits accounting for discarding, in contrast I've got PPU brass with necks separating from the shoulder after only 4 firings. There is a substantial price difference between new Lapua and new PPU brass.

 

[Ratel]

.22 Hornet is a flimsy little case. I only neck size fire formed cases, just done some for firth time (PPU brass).

 

[Donkey Basher]

I have around 600 Norma 222Rem cases that are from 800 or so that were given to me back in '98/'99 buy the guy I bought a s/h rifle from. They were very discoloured & he said I may as well have them to see if they were any use as he was going to take them to the scrap dealer. I'd guess that in my use these have had around 20 reloads & I know they were reloaded by the guy who gave them to me.

I shoot them in boxes of 100 plus keep some as spares. When I get a split neck in a box it gets chucked along with any others that have split, what's left gets annealed & the box made back up to 100 using the spares.

At the other end of the scale, a few years back I bought some Federal factory 222Rem & the necks were splitting on first firing!

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmm. Just imagine how many reloads you would get if you could resize 17hmr????

 

[gixer1]

Lapua brass, 6.5CM , SRP, on its 8th firing now - primer pockets still feel snug, accuracy still good. Fairly benign loads (2800fps)

I inspect them after cleaning every time.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Meateater69]

Depends on the brass, some are better than others. Lapua is considered amongst the best. Here is brand new Lapua brass for 65CM shot 20 times without annealing and it performed fine

 

[NP435]

I have a lot of 6.5x55 that have been fired 24 times, annealed every 3rd firing, some will have to go soon as the primer tension is going.

Correct, primer seating tension is key as are cracks (neck)and internal inspection to locate possible cracking at the web.

 

[ChesterP]

The number of reloads you can get depends on a few variables, the most important being:

1. Load (ie how hot is it?);
2. Case manufacturer (brass alloys vary considerably);
3. Whether you anneal.

Generally, I avoid anything with a PPU stamp in smaller high pressure cals as I find that primer pockets start becoming loose after as little as 3 or 4 firings at hotter loads, but usually bin them after 5 firings (4 reloads) even if primer pockets are still ok. I just don't like the quality of the PPU brass in 223.

Small rifle primer cases in 6.5 and 308 will give more reloads than large rifle alternatives as the base won't deform as readily, so primer pockets remain snug and this was one reason that Hornady recommended the small rifle Lapua cases in the first place for 6.5. More importantly, they take the greater chamber pressures of 6.5CM which at the time the large rifle primers were considered marginal for. 308 cases were considered more consistent shot to shot in small primer case variety and there was also differences in uniform and reliable detonation when ambient temperatures fell, between the two primer sizes. Laurie of this parish has done extensive testing on these and produced some good data on his findings. I believe that these days, case quality has improved for 6.5 and large rifle cases generate more reloads than they did. Beware loads in small primer versions should never be replicated of changing to large primer versions as they will be considerably hotter.

There are a few general rules of thumb which might save your bacon. It's all common sense stuff. After every firing, inspect the case after cleaning for signs of waisting near the head (I visually check plus use a little L shaped copper wire to feel for any waist developing internally), and check that primers are a snug fit. Batch cases so they're not mixed up (same number of firings) and as soon as primers hint at becoming a little loose or easy to fit, bin the batch. It's not worth risking your neck nor your rifle bolt face just to squeeze an extra reload from them.

 

[JTO]

How long is a piece of string?

If you need to ask this question, you need to do more research.

Whilst I appreciate that a forum is a place where questions should be asked and answered freely, reloading information (like load data) should not be spoon-fed to someone who can't be bothered to research.

Too many factors, quality of brass, how has it been stored/prepped/sized, how high pressure were the loads, what sizing dies were used, how much sizing was done, were they annealed (properly?), and what type of action you are using... etc.

Dead giveaway is cracks in neck or case head separation.

This just about sums it up.