Buffalo with crossbow

[Mungo]

That's where I disagree... Villagers do not understand wild animals, not anymore than city-dwelling Europeans do. The hunters do, but other people don't. Even the fishermen, they do not understand hippos and crocs. There is no logical thinking in their minds, magic and luck and superstition and plain misunderstanding have much more to do with their perception of animals than any sort of reasoned knowledge.

Whenever we're called to deal with a hippo who killed one or a few fishermen, we hear the same story... "Kill all the hippos, they always go where there is good fish... Send them away, kill them...". No matter how much we try to explain that "No, it's the other way around: hippos poo on the shore or in the water, all sorts of larvae and small fish come to eat the poop, medium fish come to feast on the small stuff, big fish come to eat the medium ones, and fishermen come to catch what they can", nobody believes it. They give us that look, shake their head a little bit, smile like you'd smile at some cult faithful trying to convert you, then they go to the witch doctor and sacrifice a chicken or a goat, because that's what keeps hippos and all sorts of things away. And two weeks or six months later we're back, and there is another lacerated body in the shade, with the air full of flies and the stink wafting around in the morning sun. "Kill all the hippos, they always go where the fish is...".

My experience is mid way between the two extremes. It seems extremely dependent on where you are and the history of the local area and population.

In areas with low human population density that have been relatively undisturbed by things like war, mass movements, internal displacement etc, there does seem to be a body of knowledge and awareness passed on, and they’re usually very effective at understanding and managing risk from megafauna. That’s not to say there aren’t superstitions and witch doctors - there are - but the behaviour patterns that result from the superstitions are often effective.

By contrast, where the population living in an area has undergone radical change for some reason - like massive recent expansion, major disruptions from war etc, or large influxes of refugees or internally displaced, that body of knowledge and the patterns of behaviour are lost. Or have become scrambled.

That’s when the superstitions and the behaviours they induce stop matching up with local conditions, and things go wrong.

But then the same can be said virtually anywhere. We can all think of old Highland ghillies plugging away doing things in a changed world and shaking our heads in disbelief...

 

[Triggermortis]

Makes me wonder more about the PH, what calibre of idiot would allow a client to **** off a buffalo with a needle gun?

 

[CarlW]

Makes me wonder more about the PH, what calibre of idiot would allow a client to **** off a buffalo with a needle gun?

I know you don't mean it unkindly but I think you are being a little bit unfair. PHs do a very dangerous job, they don't earn an awful lot of money, and they generally don't get a vote. Some PHs are also owner/operators but the majority work under contract to the operators (people like me). As operators, generally we will sell whatever hunts are lawful in our particular country. Bow-hunting for dangerous game is lawful in some but not in others. For instance, we recently had to turn down a client who wanted to bow-hunt an elephant: had it been lawful, we would have said yes in an instant.

I don't know the statistics so will happily be corrected if anyone has them, but - anecdotally - bow-hunting doesn't seem to be killing off proportionately more PHs or clients than any other form of DG hunting.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[JMikeyH]

I know you don't mean it unkindly but I think you are being a little bit unfair. PHs do a very dangerous job, they don't earn an awful lot of money, and they generally don't get a vote. Some PHs are also owner/operators but the majority work under contract to the operators (people like me). As operators, generally we will sell whatever hunts are lawful in our particular country. Bow-hunting for dangerous game is lawful in some but not in others. For instance, we recently had to turn down a client who wanted to bow-hunt an elephant: had it been lawful, we would have said yes in an instant.

I don't know the statistics so will happily be corrected if anyone has them, but - anecdotally - bow-hunting doesn't seem to be killing off proportionately more PHs or clients than any other form of DG hunting.

Kind regards,

Carl

Is there a minimum draw weight for bows used on larger quarry? I am talking from a perspective of total ignorance here so please forgive if it comes across poorly but how does one kill an elephant with a bow usable by a human being? I assume only a crossbow would be suitable? Specific kind of arrow head?

 

[CarlW]

Is there a minimum draw weight for bows used on larger quarry? I am talking from a perspective of total ignorance here so please forgive if it comes across poorly but how does one kill an elephant with a bow usable by a human being? I assume only a crossbow would be suitable? Specific kind of arrow head?

The requirements and/or prohibitions are different in every country.

In Mozambique, a bow is unlawful for dangerous game; but lawful for soft-skinned game (PG) with no minimum requirements

I don't know the minimum requirements in those countries that do allow it for DG. SA and Namibia both have very successful bow-hunting cultures (and some incredibly experienced bow-hunting PHs): am sure one of those guys will be along to give the info.

 

[Triggermortis]

I know you don't mean it unkindly but I think you are being a little bit unfair. PHs do a very dangerous job, they don't earn an awful lot of money, and they generally don't get a vote. Some PHs are also owner/operators but the majority work under contract to the operators (people like me). As operators, generally we will sell whatever hunts are lawful in our particular country. Bow-hunting for dangerous game is lawful in some but not in others. For instance, we recently had to turn down a client who wanted to bow-hunt an elephant: had it been lawful, we would have said yes in an instant.

I don't know the statistics so will happily be corrected if anyone has them, but - anecdotally - bow-hunting doesn't seem to be killing off proportionately more PHs or clients than any other form of DG hunting.

Kind regards,

Carl

Carl,
I am not a PH, I have not been to Africa on dangerous game but you could not persuade me to **** off a beast with an arrow as common sense would tell me it would not be killed humanely.
There is a fine line between providing a professional service and allowing an idiot (as in anyone who fires an arrow at a buffalo and expects to kill it) To engage in a hunt that is more likely than not to result in the idiot being injured if not killed, how can you say the PH is acting professionally in agreeing to get close enough to take a shot with an appropriate rifle calibre, then let him wound the animal with a crossbow and not have a rifle big enough to stop the charging beast?

 

[CarlW]

Carl,
I am not a PH, I have not been to Africa on dangerous game but you could not persuade me to **** off a beast with an arrow as common sense would tell me it would not be killed humanely.
There is a fine line between providing a professional service and allowing an idiot (as in anyone who fires an arrow at a buffalo and expects to kill it) To engage in a hunt that is more likely than not to result in the idiot being injured if not killed, how can you say the PH is acting professionally in agreeing to get close enough to take a shot with an appropriate rifle calibre, then let him wound the animal with a crossbow and not have a rifle big enough to stop the charging beast?

It is easy to judge other hunters, particularly if that hunter is practising a form of hunting with which one is unfamiliar.

There are many fine bow-hunters (I'm not one of them ), and I've met a good few that I would trust to hunt buffalo at our place in that way (although we don't because it is not lawful).

As I understand it, the PH got a shot off with his .375: a perfectly-acceptable (if not everyone's preferred) back-up rifle, before finishing it with his pistol. He protected the client, killed the beast, and survived to tell the tale. Bravo to him, I say.

 

[Triggermortis]

I bow to your experience on the ground but in my ignorance I can’t help thinking Lady Luck had more to do with the outcome, if the 375 was enough the beast would not have made it to the client and pistol would not have been needed?

 

[CarlW]

I bow to your experience on the ground but in my ignorance I can’t help thinking Lady Luck had more to do with the outcome, if the 375 was enough the beast would not have made it to the client and pistol would not have been needed?

Buffalo will take a lot of punishment (from any calibre) when amped-up: Lady luck nearly always plays a role when a professional (or an amateur) stops a charge.

Judging a PH, from the comfort of an armchair, for: (1) agreeing to conduct a perfectly lawful hunt with a bow; and (2) using a perfectly lawful rifle to protect his client, is profoundly unfair.

Walk in his shoes for a while first, and then judge him.

Finally, don't forget that hunting dangerous game is....well...dangerous...

 

[Kano383]

I bow to your experience on the ground but in my ignorance I can’t help thinking Lady Luck had more to do with the outcome, if the 375 was enough the beast would not have made it to the client and pistol would not have been needed?

A .375 with a good bullet is plenty enough, IF the bullet hits the right spot. In a charge, you have to brain or spine the animal, and for that you need penetration and a straight path - bullet diameter is very secondary. You also need speed and accuracy, that's why I'm still puzzled at the scope mounted on that .375: you can't really pull fast shots up close with a magnified scope...

 

[Kano383]

My experience is mid way between the two extremes. It seems extremely dependent on where you are and the history of the local area and population.

In areas with low human population density that have been relatively undisturbed by things like war, mass movements, internal displacement etc, there does seem to be a body of knowledge and awareness passed on, and they’re usually very effective at understanding and managing risk from megafauna. That’s not to say there aren’t superstitions and witch doctors - there are - but the behaviour patterns that result from the superstitions are often effective.

By contrast, where the population living in an area has undergone radical change for some reason - like massive recent expansion, major disruptions from war etc, or large influxes of refugees or internally displaced, that body of knowledge and the patterns of behaviour are lost. Or have become scrambled.

That’s when the superstitions and the behaviours they induce stop matching up with local conditions, and things go wrong.

But then the same can be said virtually anywhere. We can all think of old Highland ghillies plugging away doing things in a changed world and shaking our heads in disbelief...

You've got a point... Unfortunately, such pristine places are very rare, wish there were more!

 

[Triggermortis]

Buffalo will take a lot of punishment (from any calibre) when amped-up: Lady luck nearly always plays a role when a professional (or an amateur) stops a charge.

Judging a PH, from the comfort of an armchair, for: (1) agreeing to conduct a perfectly lawful hunt with a bow; and (2) using a perfectly lawful rifle to protect his client, is profoundly unfair.

Walk in his shoes for a while first, and then judge him.

Finally, don't forget that hunting dangerous game is....well...dangerous...

Fair point Carl, but let me ask this of you, if you as a PH took 10 clients out hunting buffalo with a rifle, how many on average would end up like him as opposed to 10 that were using as big and powerful a bow as possible?

 

[CarlW]

Fair point Carl, but let me ask this of you, if you as a PH took 10 clients out hunting buffalo with a rifle, how many on average would end up like him as opposed to 10 that were using as big and powerful a bow as possible?

I have no idea.

My core point is not to defend bow-hunting (although I have met some rather good people who practise it); rather it is to ask that we don't judge and criticise a PH who protected his client and got hurt in the process. None of us was there. We didn't risk our lives for a few hundred dollars a day. We didn't step into harm's way in order to protect that client. We didn't manage to stop a charging buffalo. He did...

 

[Jamouk]

I think every hunter has to respect the game they are after fullstop and attempting a buffalo with a bow doesn't seem to me to fit that bill ... you could probably maybe if you were VERY lucky and close enough kill a large deer with a fac air rifle .. but why would you take the risk ? .. I have been to Africa, Once (not after buffalo but got fairly close enough to them to see the you owe me money stare ) The first thing I was told is listen to your PH ! as he is the expert not you! , if my PH said no don't do that or don't take that shot , I would listen to him explicitly , and would also not even consider risking his life to protect me . Great respect to the guy for stepping up and protecting his client but he shouldnt have had to.
I dont let my son use his .410 on a duck drive !

 

[jer]

I think every hunter has to respect the game they are after fullstop and attempting a buffalo with a bow doesn't seem to me to fit that bill ... you could probably maybe if you were VERY lucky and close enough kill a large deer with a fac air rifle .. but why would you take the risk ? .. I have been to Africa, Once (not after buffalo but got fairly close enough to them to see the you owe me money stare ) The first thing I was told is listen to your PH ! as he is the expert not you! , if my PH said no don't do that or don't take that shot , I would listen to him explicitly , and would also not even consider risking his life to protect me . Great respect to the guy for stepping up and protecting his client but he shouldnt have had to.
I dont let my son use his .410 on a duck drive !

So you say the PH is the expert and you would follow his instructions implicitly and of course you are correct the PH has undergone a rigorous training and accreditation procedure to hold that position. As the professional he is best placed to decide if any aspect of the hunt be it where you are hunting, what you are hunting and what weapon you are using conforms to acceptable risk and safety parameters because there is no such thing as a risk free dangerous game hunt. He will not make a judgment regarding his own or his clients safety based on ignorance of the facts but on his professional assessment of whether or not he can keep everyone safe should something go wrong and stepping up to keep his client safe if it does go wrong is one of his responsibilities. I have not met a PH who said he would do anything that he felt wasn’t right but there may be exceptions to that and I don’t have any firsthand experience to know if a bow is a suitable weapon to use on a buff hunt but what I do know is that there are many PHs out there that are comfortable with it which tells me it is suitable in the correct hands. A heavy caliber rifle is not a magic wand that drops animals on the spot and there have been many sticky situations as a result of poorly placed shots from a hunter that has not done his bit, a wounded and pi$$ed off buff is not the sole domain of bowhunting. I find it quite sad that so many on the SD are quick to condemn bow hunting when they clearly have no bow experience or factual knowledge of its capabilities, but from what I see on the likes of Youtube properly placed arrows are very capable of effective kills and I would rather support fellow hunters who are doing something different and something that requires a good deal more skill and patience than is needed with a rifle, it is after all the method used to put meat on the table for centuries before guns were invented and to me is probably the most respectful method of hunting.

 

[Jamouk]

I have a compound bow and its very powerful and pretty sure It would kill anything that was hit properly , and im not condemning bow hunting at all ... but a buffalo ? ... maybe there are PHs that are comfortable with it but maybe thats a commercial rather than an ethical decision ?

 

[mereside]

A bad shot is a bad shot, with either rifle or bow, neither one is more ethical than another, there are instances where people have been killed or seriously hurt from these animals shooting with a rifle, the point is it's dangerous game that's the draw.

 

[nauman]

widow maker he was lucky

 

[mereside]

I will post this here so if you watch this one study you see what damage is caused by an arrow and single bevel broad head, in the original post we have no idea what combination the guy was shooting but if people spend the time to go through the whole of Dr Ed Ashby's findings you will have better understanding of how it all works, also shows there is little difference between an arrow and a bullet of higher speeds and energy, if anyone can bother to find the study on kinetic energy you see no correlation between this and killing or penetration, if you truly understand how animals die you see there is no difference between a rifle and an arrow, most bow hunters spend time to get high FOC good flight and maximum penetration but many factors come into play. so saying all bow hunting is wrong or that is the outcome that will happen is far from what actually happens, it is interesting if you can be bothered to broaden your mind, regards wayne

 

[Munty]

I applaud some of the responses from many contributors to this article, especially those from Carl. I don’t usually contribute or feel compelled to make any comment on this site, but as an experienced hunter who has hunted Buffalo in Mozambique and Zimbabwe with a .450 Nitro Express under leaver hammer gun, I wish to say this.
If a hunter chooses to hunt Buffalo with a lethal weapon (Rifle, Bow or Spear) Then provided it is an ethical, fair chase hunt then good on them.
That PH did his job and did it well by all accounts, he certainly protected his client !
What is not the norm, is a PH using a .375 rifle with telescopic sights. A ‘Stopping Calibre’ is generally a .458 or larger, double or bolt.
When I hunted in Zimbabwe, I was with two of the most experienced Dangerous Game PH’s in Africa, one had a .470 double and the other had a 505 Gibbs bolt action rifle. They chose those rifles for a reason. Open iron sights or red dot sights are essential for stopping a charging Buffalo.
I still take my hat off to the PH, and I bet he changes that rifle for a bigger one.
Regards to all
Munty