Building a .404
- Thread starter John Gryphon
- Start date
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
I once built one on a standard Mauser 98, awesome project! Ended up being able to have 4 down, 1 up half loading it, and without a belly stock and mag.
Lost me two fillings and a set of quad sticks regulating the irons that did.
Lost me two fillings and a set of quad sticks regulating the irons that did.
On my to do list, have the action and barrel just got are out around to it unfortunately.
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Great viewing - really lovely rifle, obviously a money-no-object build. I like the checkering and metalwork. Shame they didn’t rust blue the action as well - colour case hardening is too overstated and belongs with flur-de-lis checkering and OTT engraving
Awesome. I have a standard Oberndorf action set aside for a 404 project. Any chance you could give some hints how you achieved this?
I had a 404 Jeff built for me on a M 98 action
Sadly the principles upon which Paul Mauser designed his actions were not followed
It was unusable for the task for which I had it built
In the end I gave it away
A 3 plus one that would only cycle one round before the rest jumped out of the magwell to see where their brother went
Had a couple of gunsmiths try to modify it to resolve the fundamentals of the initial poor design
I lost confidence in it
As a stopping rifle it would have been more dangerous than Trigger’s broom
Sadly the principles upon which Paul Mauser designed his actions were not followed
It was unusable for the task for which I had it built
In the end I gave it away
A 3 plus one that would only cycle one round before the rest jumped out of the magwell to see where their brother went
Had a couple of gunsmiths try to modify it to resolve the fundamentals of the initial poor design
I lost confidence in it
As a stopping rifle it would have been more dangerous than Trigger’s broom
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I have a 10.3 built on a BRNO ZKK 602 Johnny,whats your thoughts on the 602 action.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Awesome. I have a standard Oberndorf action set aside for a 404 project. Any chance you could give some hints how you achieved this?
[/QUOTE]
Of course!
Essentially, keep everything like a standard rifle, but either open the bolt face to magnum or use one already opened, such as a David Lloyd bolt.
Remove material from the back of the action in the majority, and a small amount from the front. You will need to alter the feed ramp substantially to a larger curvature and width, a dremel or similar is useful for this as it can come in from the mag weld side.
The feed lips within the action need to carefully and slowly be rounded to a larger case, so essentially making a larger internal curvature again. They will need to be shortened substantially in the front, up towards the feed lip area, and again, with a round ball head polisher or grinder, very gradually made to fit the case dimensions. You can also turn the receiver on its head, upside down, and looking down into the mag weld, keep running a ball head grinder up and down the underside of the feed rails until you get a nice fit. Then you need to turn your attention to the feed angle, which is a similar procedure, and a bit of metal needs to be removed very very gradually until they slide fri. The new shaped feed rails, right onto the feed lip and into the chamber. This part is really ‘feel’ work.
I also chamfered the outer edge of the extractor claw to allow the bolt to slip over a round that jumps into front of the bolt accidentally.
You will need to remove some metal from the rear bridge front and upper sides, take it back enough to align with where you stopped lengthening the action internally, and follow this upwards, gradually curving it into the top rear bridge for a continuous look. In the front, just a small notching is potentially needed.
Now, some advocate cutting the rear mag wall and moving it backwards, then lengthening the magazine walls and making a release catch.
In my case, I adopted a more vintage London style, and cut the entire mag box off the bottom metal, and then used the internal walls of the stock as the mag box, ensuring the stock in letting made a perfect fit with the receiver. The stock was relieved of wood to match the lengthening of the rear bridge. In fact, the stock was relived by an additional 2mm approx, and a piece of flat steel was screwed into the stock, to act as the new rear mag box wall, the cases glide better with a steel rear mag box wall, but I didn’t want to build this into the floorplate/bottom metal.
The floorplate was welded shut to avoid risk of round dumping under recoil.
The follower angle was amended to allow for the wider cases of course.
Not opening the feed rails too much is absolutely key to avoiding the issue described above, with cases jumping out of the magazine from the top, and I suggest when rounding the inside of the feed rails, to eat metal into the under sides of the action, to essentially widen it inside under the feed rails. If you have a mill, it’s an easy job, and the slightly ‘wider’ internals mean there’s more feed rails to stop cases popping out
[/QUOTE]
Of course!
Essentially, keep everything like a standard rifle, but either open the bolt face to magnum or use one already opened, such as a David Lloyd bolt.
Remove material from the back of the action in the majority, and a small amount from the front. You will need to alter the feed ramp substantially to a larger curvature and width, a dremel or similar is useful for this as it can come in from the mag weld side.
The feed lips within the action need to carefully and slowly be rounded to a larger case, so essentially making a larger internal curvature again. They will need to be shortened substantially in the front, up towards the feed lip area, and again, with a round ball head polisher or grinder, very gradually made to fit the case dimensions. You can also turn the receiver on its head, upside down, and looking down into the mag weld, keep running a ball head grinder up and down the underside of the feed rails until you get a nice fit. Then you need to turn your attention to the feed angle, which is a similar procedure, and a bit of metal needs to be removed very very gradually until they slide fri. The new shaped feed rails, right onto the feed lip and into the chamber. This part is really ‘feel’ work.
I also chamfered the outer edge of the extractor claw to allow the bolt to slip over a round that jumps into front of the bolt accidentally.
You will need to remove some metal from the rear bridge front and upper sides, take it back enough to align with where you stopped lengthening the action internally, and follow this upwards, gradually curving it into the top rear bridge for a continuous look. In the front, just a small notching is potentially needed.
Now, some advocate cutting the rear mag wall and moving it backwards, then lengthening the magazine walls and making a release catch.
In my case, I adopted a more vintage London style, and cut the entire mag box off the bottom metal, and then used the internal walls of the stock as the mag box, ensuring the stock in letting made a perfect fit with the receiver. The stock was relieved of wood to match the lengthening of the rear bridge. In fact, the stock was relived by an additional 2mm approx, and a piece of flat steel was screwed into the stock, to act as the new rear mag box wall, the cases glide better with a steel rear mag box wall, but I didn’t want to build this into the floorplate/bottom metal.
The floorplate was welded shut to avoid risk of round dumping under recoil.
The follower angle was amended to allow for the wider cases of course.
Not opening the feed rails too much is absolutely key to avoiding the issue described above, with cases jumping out of the magazine from the top, and I suggest when rounding the inside of the feed rails, to eat metal into the under sides of the action, to essentially widen it inside under the feed rails. If you have a mill, it’s an easy job, and the slightly ‘wider’ internals mean there’s more feed rails to stop cases popping out
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Of course!
Essentially, keep everything like a standard rifle, but either open the bolt face to magnum or use one already opened, such as a David Lloyd bolt.
Remove material from the back of the action in the majority, and a small amount from the front. You will need to alter the feed ramp substantially to a larger curvature and width, a dremel or similar is useful for this as it can come in from the mag weld side.
The feed lips within the action need to carefully and slowly be rounded to a larger case, so essentially making a larger internal curvature again. They will need to be shortened substantially in the front, up towards the feed lip area, and again, with a round ball head polisher or grinder, very gradually made to fit the case dimensions. You can also turn the receiver on its head, upside down, and looking down into the mag weld, keep running a ball head grinder up and down the underside of the feed rails until you get a nice fit. Then you need to turn your attention to the feed angle, which is a similar procedure, and a bit of metal needs to be removed very very gradually until they slide fri. The new shaped feed rails, right onto the feed lip and into the chamber. This part is really ‘feel’ work.
I also chamfered the outer edge of the extractor claw to allow the bolt to slip over a round that jumps into front of the bolt accidentally.
You will need to remove some metal from the rear bridge front and upper sides, take it back enough to align with where you stopped lengthening the action internally, and follow this upwards, gradually curving it into the top rear bridge for a continuous look. In the front, just a small notching is potentially needed.
Now, some advocate cutting the rear mag wall and moving it backwards, then lengthening the magazine walls and making a release catch.
In my case, I adopted a more vintage London style, and cut the entire mag box off the bottom metal, and then used the internal walls of the stock as the mag box, ensuring the stock in letting made a perfect fit with the receiver. The stock was relieved of wood to match the lengthening of the rear bridge. In fact, the stock was relived by an additional 2mm approx, and a piece of flat steel was screwed into the stock, to act as the new rear mag box wall, the cases glide better with a steel rear mag box wall, but I didn’t want to build this into the floorplate/bottom metal.
The floorplate was welded shut to avoid risk of round dumping under recoil.
[/QUOTE]
Geez Johnny,I wonder if you could fix my Krico .22 LR trigger lol.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
It’s a great action, but IMHO needs the trigger unit milled to accept an M70 Dressels/Alaska Arms unit, and a 3 pos side safety
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
That wont be happening Johnny as I dont have the dough for now or a reliable skilled smith to do it close by. Whats wrong with the original trigger in your opinion? I`m a Mod 70 fan and love the safeties btw.
Do you know anyone that has this cal?
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Geez Johnny,I wonder if you could fix my Krico .22 LR trigger lol.
[/QUOTE]
If it’s one of the ones with the big long trigger box units that look a bit like an old suitcase, I’ve never handled one, by looks of it there’s not much room for work- possibly by very careful shortening of the sear engagement.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Don’t know anyone, but gave it very serious consideration as it’s far easier to fit into a standard length Mauser type action. It sort of straddles the 9.3x62 and 404jeff in a very efficient manner. I only decided against it due to nostalgia for classic chamberings and for the challenge of the task at hand.
I reckon it’s about as perfect as you can get for something like water buff etc
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
There’s nothing wrong with the original trigger, if it works for you. The one with the set trigger blade I won’t even entertain
but the secondary supplied curved blade can be made to be just fine, but it’s always a tiny bit wobbly I’ve found, just not ‘tight’.The reason I like the m70 and Mauser 98 military triggers, esp on DG rifles or those coming into distant lands - is simplicity! You can pull the stock off and blow the dirt out or fix it in the field if it’s not behaving, you can even carry a spare and change it over a coffee in the field. It’s so simple, there’s no cracks or crevices for a grain of sand to get stuck.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
the 602 donor was a 375 h&h originally,the 10.3 is a long pill much the same as the H&H.
Water buffalo? They float my boat about as much as a billy goat does.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Ok, so easy conversion. The 10.3 is a touch shorter than the 404, has a slightly narrower case, so it’s just a touch easier to get to sit neatly in a converted action, and the long sleek rounds are easier to get to feed and hit the chamber smoothly than big round soft points in the 404 for example.
Being a belted case, the 10.3 of course is as well
Not sure about water buff, but size wise, eland, kudu, buff, etc, it’s a great round
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
They make 400Gr bullets for them John, the range is 180gr to 400gr RWS
Bit of info if you dont know as yet.
RWS 10.3x68 Magnum - Revivaler
Fast Facts The RWS 10.3×68 Magnum was created in 2017 to provide a practical hunting rifle calibre that would suit an international hunter and that would meet calibre requirements for all African states where big game...
revivaler.com
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Parker Hale M81 "African" rifles in so called belted magnum in 7mm RM and .300 WM also had issues with feeding. The cause was doing a gash job and not altering the inside of the receiver to accommodate these straight wall belted cases. P-Hale cost cutting that, to use another metaphor, spoiled the boat for a hap'orth of tar.I had a 404 Jeff built for me on a M 98 action
Sadly the principles upon which Paul Mauser designed his actions were not followed
It was unusable for the task for which I had it built
In the end I gave it away
A 3 plus one that would only cycle one round before the rest jumped out of the magwell to see where their brother went
Had a couple of gunsmiths try to modify it to resolve the fundamentals of the initial poor design
I lost confidence in it
As a stopping rifle it would have been more dangerous than Trigger’s broom
I have just got back from hunting in the Eastern Cape of South Africa. I took my 30-06, and my friend took his 416 Rigby. I shot everything (Nyala, Kudu, Blessbuck, Warthog, Impala, and Springbok ) with my 30-06. Almost every shot was 200 yards plus. I was a one shot wonder. My friend shot a bush pig with the 416, and everything else with my 30-06.
Are you sure you really need a 404 Jeffery ?
Are you sure you really need a 404 Jeffery ?
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Everyone needs a .222, 7x57 and 404Jeff in their lives before you can lay to rest peacefully
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Definitely not for those animals you have listed...but yes...just in case!
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