Bulging Neck...!

My previous trip grunting was going on with a spiker coming back home, the trail cam has pinged a buck moving past but a tad out of range (in the early hours) to work what he was like, weather has swung to the West so juggling a bit of dry time (at the right time) is high on the list.
Half way to the ground, black sky's and driving rain! Has Sara Keith-Lucas (BBC East) weather girl spun a tale!
A few miles to go and the sky was clearing the saying I have followed for a long time is "rain stops deer come out" but this time the usually busy part was very quiet, the west wind is not the best but 2 seats around 200 yds apart gives me a bit more choice.
Muntjac and Cock pheasant's were doing their thing, then a a couple of does ran past and back again followed by this lad, then again but this time he came to a halt with my best bahh
Not a big animal a tad stinky with his flanks hollow from not eating as the field gralloch was good but the usual large main gut was empty, still lots of fat but he was in need of sex not food!
Once loaded I parked the truck at the top of the track for a coffee and a listen, grunting from the distance so perhaps that explained why it was a tad slow, but one more less which is why I go.

 

[User100]

I find it so depressing that this class of buck gets shot at this time (and given a write-up) in the name of reducing numbers.

 

[Tim.243]

I find it so depressing that this class of buck gets shot at this time (and given a write-up) in the name of reducing numbers.

Well they are transit and 4 other stalkers on the ground around my little bit.... Glad you popped in
8 from August with these hanging around you don't have to worry

 

[imnotrucknut]

Well they are transit and 4 other stalkers on the ground around my little bit.... Glad you popped in
8 from August with these hanging around you don't have to worry

Keep up the good work Tim

 

[Tim.243]

Keep up the good work Tim

Most kind,

 

[Leec6.5]

I find it so depressing that this class of buck gets shot at this time (and given a write-up) in the name of reducing numbers.

What are you on about?

I would class that as a crappy cull buck! If it had good symmetry on the head as well as body size, then I would chunter, I would shoot that out of pity without question

Well done Tim another buck down.

 

[Leec6.5]

The problem is when you’re surrounded on all sides and there’s you Billy no mates stuck in the middle, you see a Deer you shoot it because next door will shoot it!

Absolutely no point in trying to manage fallow or red Deer, unless you are on a massive estate where the Deer are resident!

Little scraps of land here and there the Deer are transient, here today gone tomorrow so you capitalise on what you can when you can, so moaning about quality head, which is not, it’s really irrelevant

 

[User100]

We know that shooting a buck makes no difference to the overall numbers. So what is there to gain right now?

Deer live for these few weeks and with the herd spp, I think it is disrespectful to them as wild deer not to let them do their thing.

Then take it at any other time. Right now - who wins? Justification of one-mouth-less or take-it-now-otherwise-next-door-will is a bit distasteful.

 

[imnotrucknut]

Actually shooting bucks does make a difference to overall nunbers logically.
What it doesnt do is make a difference to decrease overall population.
Atb

 

[Tim.243]

We know that shooting a buck makes no difference to the overall numbers. So what is there to gain right now?

Deer live for these few weeks and with the herd spp, I think it is disrespectful to them as wild deer not to let them do their thing.

Then take it at any other time. Right now - who wins? Justification of one-mouth-less or take-it-now-otherwise-next-door-will is a bit distasteful.

My advice is stick to managing your own ground and I will mine....

Next door love to shoot Bucks as you never see them shooting in the winter but you know best.

All does


Next door

 

[wytonpjs]

Please excuse the quality of the attached, taken last night with an iPhone on the eyepiece of an old Helion, but it really does show the magnitude of the fallow issue in the South. As he rightly said, where do you start - one shot and they are all away into sanctuary. My fallow are transitory too so I take what I can when I can to simply keep lowering the numbers and to reduce footfall on my permissions. None of my farmers want number to grow to anywhere close to these numbers!

 

[Mike1979]

We know that shooting a buck makes no difference to the overall numbers. So what is there to gain right now?

Deer live for these few weeks and with the herd spp, I think it is disrespectful to them as wild deer not to let them do their thing.

Then take it at any other time. Right now - who wins? Justification of one-mouth-less or take-it-now-otherwise-next-door-will is a bit distasteful.

This comes up a lot but if there are 100 deer and you shoot 1 is this not a reduction to 99?

Appreciate that effective control requires shooting of females but they are not in season at the moment so "every little helps".

Whilst I am banned from commenting directly...Nice buck Tim

 

[Leec6.5]

We know that shooting a buck makes no difference to the overall numbers. So what is there to gain right now?

Deer live for these few weeks and with the herd spp, I think it is disrespectful to them as wild deer not to let them do their thing.

Then take it at any other time. Right now - who wins? Justification of one-mouth-less or take-it-now-otherwise-next-door-will is a bit distasteful.

I would love to be your land owner!

You tell Tel land owner when you’ve got a field of crop coming up and a deer are eating it male or female they will want them shot!!

In today’s climate there is no such thing as dear management it is death destruction kill them all! Like I said unless you are on a massive estate where the deer are resident you just shoot the bloody things

 

[Nickb]

Well they are transit and 4 other stalkers on the ground around my little bit.... Glad you popped in
8 from August with these hanging around you don't have to worry

Keep on knocking them over

 

[Ratel]

We have a problem where there is a reservoir/sanctuary not far away not managed. My wife and I look at it as we drive past and do a rough count of over 400 on one field. We hear there allegedly are 1500 deer on the place and the owner has to buy in hay to feed their horses. What chance have we got when this lot breed and move out across the various estates. We hit a few poor bucks and prickets and as many does as we can but are now seeing up to 180 in herds which on big fields are extremely hard to get close to. More RTAs are happening and try as we might it's getting harder even though are cull numbers are rising.

 

[Leec6.5]

We have a problem where there is a reservoir/sanctuary not far away not managed. My wife and I look at it as we drive past and do a rough count of over 400 on one field. We hear there allegedly are 1500 deer on the place and the owner has to buy in hay to feed their horses. What chance have we got when this lot breed and move out across the various estates. We hit a few poor bucks and prickets and as many does as we can but are now seeing up to 180 in herds which on big fields are extremely hard to get close to. More RTAs are happening and try as we might it's getting harder even though are cull numbers are rising.

All you can do is shoot what you see big buck little buck cardboard box, roll it over the days of management long gone unfortunately.

 

[Ratel]

All you can do is shoot what you see big buck little buck cardboard box, roll it over the days of management long gone unfortunately.

Still like to batter as many does as we can rather than bucks, that's my policy.

 

[User100]

Take a very basic population model for fallow, working on the assumption of 80% female, which has been shown to be typical in the large fallow herds in the south and east, from various drone surveys and confirmed by Ben Harrower at the FC Worcester mtg.



From a herd of 100, if you cull 46 each year (which obviously is a lot to ask), 23 bucks and 23 does, the number after 5 years is much the same; 18 bucks and 28 does, the overall number has dropped and the percentage does has dropped; 28 bucks and 18 does, the number has risen and the percentage does has risen. So obviously taking bucks does contribute to the overall number but nowhere near as much as taking does.

So in @wytonpjs's video - along with the comment that one shot and they're all sitting in a neighbouring sanctuary (all too familiar a situation) - why whack a buck now, rather than let them be settled and stick it to the does in 10 days time? In those situations, every buck you shoot makes taking the next doe more difficult. Well, that has been the experience around here, where the number/density of fallow have been very similar to those in the video clip.

So, if reducing the numbers is really the objective, then shooting a buck now can be counter-productive. If, on the other hand, the objective is to scare them away, then fair dos. And realistically, without a really good take up of co-operating landowners over a large area, that's pretty much the best one can hope for.

I am fiercely anti the BDS's campaign that seems to suggest that deer are being seen as vermin because that sends the message that culling deer is wrong. How can that be in the best interests of and welfare of deer. Equally, Dominic Griffith's BDS article that effectively said that the fallow deer problem is now so difficult to deal with that we might as well roll over and love the deer, was utterly shocking.

We need to take the fallow situation seriously yet, they are still wild deer, it's not their fault and we ought to treat them with a little respect.

I am all for whacking as many as possible to try and keep them in check but with a bit of discretion, we can make our efforts a lot more effective.

 

[Leec6.5]

Still like to batter as many does as we can rather than bucks, that's my policy.

100% no mercy here either

 

[Leec6.5]

Take a very basic population model for fallow, working on the assumption of 80% female, which has been shown to be typical in the large fallow herds in the south and east, from various drone surveys and confirmed by Ben Harrower at the FC Worcester mtg.

View attachment 443100

From a herd of 100, if you cull 46 each year (which obviously is a lot to ask), 23 bucks and 23 does, the number after 5 years is much the same; 18 bucks and 28 does, the overall number has dropped and the percentage does has dropped; 28 bucks and 18 does, the number has risen and the percentage does has risen. So obviously taking bucks does contribute to the overall number but nowhere near as much as taking does.

So in @wytonpjs's video - along with the comment that one shot and they're all sitting in a neighbouring sanctuary (all too familiar a situation) - why whack a buck now, rather than let them be settled and stick it to the does in 10 days time? In those situations, every buck you shoot makes taking the next doe more difficult. Well, that has been the experience around here, where the number/density of fallow have been very similar to those in the video clip.

So, if reducing the numbers is really the objective, then shooting a buck now can be counter-productive. If, on the other hand, the objective is to scare them away, then fair dos. And realistically, without a really good take up of co-operating landowners over a large area, that's pretty much the best one can hope for.

I am fiercely anti the BDS's campaign that seems to suggest that deer are being seen as vermin because that sends the message that culling deer is wrong. How can that be in the best interests of and welfare of deer. Equally, Dominic Griffith's BDS article that effectively said that the fallow deer problem is now so difficult to deal with that we might as well roll over and love the deer, was utterly shocking.

We need to take the fallow situation seriously yet, they are still wild deer, it's not their fault and we ought to treat them with a little respect.

I am all for whacking as many as possible to try and keep them in check but with a bit of discretion, we can make our efforts a lot more effective.

If you took the time to do that, you’re not shooting enough deer, or you have no life one or the other and that is no offense intended!

You can make the most elegant dear management plan that you like at the end of theday, all land owners is want to see brown bodies laying on the deck. Nothing more nothing less.

When it comes to fallow and red deer as soon as the 1st of November comes that is it glove are off non-stop every minute you’ve got spare whack and stack unfortunately that is the way it is and has to be.

In the summer personally, there’s not the population here they’re transient. So I shoot what I see when I can as and when that’s just the way it is like I said unless you are on a massive estate where you have a resident population, Cull management plans do not mean Jack when you have farmers and landowners breathing down your neck because you’re not doing enough because there are tens of thousands of other stalkers on this website that will snap up your ground up within a kick of the fingers if they could get wind of you not pulling your weight.