Clumber Spaniels

[countrryboy]

The last 2 posts are probably the best 2 posts on the thread.

U've pretty much hit the nail on the head steve, speak to as many people who've owned them as possible and try and see a few working, but an opinion off someone who has owned several breeds over the years and decied on a clumber is really worth having and can point out any strengths or weaknesses it has over other breeds. Atleast then u can decide if it would suit u, even the personality off them, some strong headed breeds may not suit timid people etc and vice versa
A very honest post Niel

Over the years i have heard many folk in the pub on about their wonder dog/breed that never misses anything, yet to ever see 1 work on a shoot day an i have been very lucky to work alongside some very good dogs and probably 1 or 2 of the best dogs of various different breeds in the uk, and even they miss birds sometimes.



Pez Wot does ur dad think off ur clumber? If he has worked and trained springers all his life he will know them inside out, how does the clumber compare to a young springer?
If the clumbers nose is beter would they not also make good or better sniffer dogs than springers? Althou i can imagine size and agility may be an issue for some sniffing jobs

 

[stone]

Thanks again all, for the input. One thing is clear and that's everyone is passionate about the breeds they keep which is a great thing, and I suspect that what works best for one persons circumstance may not produce the best for the next person. I think it probably is a matter of matching the right (suitable breed) to the individual and circumstance under which the dog will be worked, ie type of work and frequency of each type of work.

i remember the first ever trial I shot on that was for the WCSS

Christine Bridgewater and the late Chas Morris were the judges if not mistaken
even James Darley was a gun on that day.... So going back a bit
it was excepted that the dog may not retrieve the bird to hand but may run off and bury the bird

it was judged on marking ability and picking the bird .. If it retrieved it to hand ....it got extra points..!!
what amazed me was how methodical the dog worked but needed the handler to egg the dog on so it worked
these were the breeding stock of the future
shot over a few since those days and still not seen a good one
considering the cost of buying a rare breed and the emphasis on how good these dogs are
i would definitely do my home work and choose carefully
they are all cute as pups but when they are 3 years old is where you really want them to start to come into their own
pays your money... Takes your chance and enjoy
hopefully you chose right
​good luck

 

[pezz69]

First and fore most chaps, i would just like to clear up that my clumber is off working lines, she comes from sedgehurst lines, from grandparents to g grandparents i think. So she is most defiantley from working lines, i wouldn't have a picked a show type.

My dad has been a dog handler for about 14 years now, so i have seen many come and go, trained with him, partly trained his dogs i.e at home from pups with the ball (their reward). Labs, Cockers, Springers, Springapoos pups that have just gone, patterdale x springer, you name them we have had them, so id like to think i have a fair amount of knowledge with pups. And also trained dogs to prison trial championship standard with him, which one came 2nd from the whole prison service, not a bad achievement i think for a, amateur handler?

I do not dislike springers and if i had to choose anything other than a clumber that would be my 2nd choice, however i hope to just own clumbers and maybe cross a springer with a clumber sometime in the future (thoughts?)

For the kind of work my dad does (active - outside areas etc etc) and Passive (people), for active work clumbers do not cover the ground quick enough for them and it isnt down to my dad what dog he gets next as ulimately it is a member of staff and the prison pay for it, so they choose. However he does like her and thinks i have done a good job up to now (think it pains him to say that). and they are just to heavy for the kind of work my dad does, labs and springers are the main choice.

​

 

[pezz69]

Clumbers are doing i do believe.

Did they not introduce Springer blood quite recently to the Clumber to give the working line a bit more get up and go? It would be great if one of the rarer breeds started to make a come back, gets a bit boring seeing just labs and the two popular spaniels breeds in the field.

 

[Neil M]

There is someone in the Wincanton area (Somerset) that has had several springer x Clumber litters! They have a litter of pups ready now. I do not know who they are but every year they advertise a litter.
I have just got my self a springer x lab, she has more brains in her 11 weeks than the 30 collective years that I have had Clumbers!!!!
And yes , I would buy another clumber (some advertised at £950 last week!! kin ell!!) because they are such characters.!!

 

[pezz69]

We payed £850 for my bitch, but she is worth every penny though, shes just so loving and funny and clumbsy - pretty much a clumber in a nutshell plus she is fantastic with my nephews at 6 months.

It's not hard to have more brains than a clumber, well noy mine anyway haha.

Have you seen them work the springer clumbers? I can imagine they would make a good dog.

Nathan

 

[howy308]

Another dog that has come on strong in the last few years is the Cocker. A little harder to train than the Springer but you will reap the benefits when done. Only problem with these is the ownership of one by the prince and Kate which has put the price through the roof. I have been on shoots with plenty that have really impressed me, do not count these out.

 

[Steve7046]

Did they not introduce Springer blood quite recently to the Clumber to give the working line a bit more get up and go? It would be great if one of the rarer breeds started to make a come back, gets a bit boring seeing just labs and the two popular spaniels breeds in the field.

There has been cocker introduced into breeding of Clumbers in Sweden, I don't know all the details but there is a breeder in the uk with a litter on the ground, the mother of the litter who is KC registered both in he uk and sweeden as a clumber is from the Swedish line making one of the great grand parents a cocker.

 

[Steve7046]

Another dog that has come on strong in the last few years is the Cocker. A little harder to train than the Springer but you will reap the benefits when done. Only problem with these is the ownership of one by the prince and Kate which has put the price through the roof. I have been on shoots with plenty that have really impressed me, do not count these out.

Definately a consideration, I've not ruled anything in or out yet.

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

Just to make things interesting i actually disagree with jim above


Countryboy i see the wink and unlike JAW'S i won't take the bait Hee !!!! Hee !!!!!!!!

Jimbo

 

[pezz69]

After tonight, teaching my BITCH down, a clumber will certaintly test your patiences for sure!!

Sit and Sit stay she was like a dream, put down, down is a whole different ball game.

The dog defiantly won tonight the little cow! Tomorrow is another day though.

Good luck with whatever you choose though mate.

​Nathan

 

[baguio]

Why on earth would you want to teach a working gundog the 'down' command anyway? I'm yet to see it used in the field on anything other than pets on a day out (or working collies) and I have been in the field more than a few times in the last 30+ years. I would concentrate on teaching your clumber useful stuff if I were you because that is going to be hard enough without adding loads of other unnecessary commands! Clumbers are daft so keep things as simple and as minimalistic as possible.
Best of luck with the training.
Baguio

 

[pezz69]

I was under the expression drop to shot, meant them going into the down and waiting for the bird to come down?

Or is that totally wrong?

And you are totally correct there, they are daft and she is no expection to the rule, completely daft as brush, well more clumbsy than anything to be honest.

​Nathan

 

[baguio]

In reality 'drop' means sit or even just freeze. Sit is just an added insurance against running in. It certainly doesn't mean 'down'. If you teach your dog to lie down after a flush it's not going to be able to mark the bird down and particularly not if it's in heavy cover!
Every day is a school day as they say!
Baguio

 

[pezz69]

I will scrap that then, as she wasn't getting it so its abit of a bonus i suppose.

 

[countrryboy]

Sorry, Going to confuse u now but i know a couple off hpr trainers that train the down command and they insit the dog 'downs' rather than sits.
While ur points are spot on about marking birds but it doesn't seem to have effected them as both their dogs are FTCH.
They say it's an extra level, a dog can easily run in from a sit position, whereas from a down has to move to a sit before running in. Prob more important for hpr's because off the distance and speed they work at need the extra control, must admit i only teach the sit thou.
They tend to train a down but relax it to a sit as dog gets older more experienced, whereas often with the sit as dog gets wiser and worked more they do begin to creep a bit and less instant on sit

Like most gun dog training horses for courses, if ur doing hide work, duck flighting or at a peg, a down command may be handy for extra steadiness or get dog out of way, but not end off world as long as sit is solid and steady.

Pezz meant to ask earlier on, u mentioned ur dads sniffer dogs. When picking a pup do they insist on working lines or is it just any pup of the right breeds?

 

[pezz69]

Any pup of any breeder mate, they don't care.

If it is ball focused that is all they wan't, but they mostly have springers/labs/lab xs/springer xs and the occasional cocker.

They did have a jack Russel on the section though a few years back.

Sorry, Going to confuse u now but i know a couple off hpr trainers that train the down command and they insit the dog 'downs' rather than sits.
While ur points are spot on about marking birds but it doesn't seem to have effected them as both their dogs are FTCH.
They say it's an extra level, a dog can easily run in from a sit position, whereas from a down has to move to a sit before running in. Prob more important for hpr's because off the distance and speed they work at need the extra control, must admit i only teach the sit thou.
They tend to train a down but relax it to a sit as dog gets older more experienced, whereas often with the sit as dog gets wiser and worked more they do begin to creep a bit and less instant on sit

Like most gun dog training horses for courses, if ur doing hide work, duck flighting or at a peg, a down command may be handy for extra steadiness or get dog out of way, but not end off world as long as sit is solid and steady.

Pezz meant to ask earlier on, u mentioned ur dads sniffer dogs. When picking a pup do they insist on working lines or is it just any pup of the right breeds?

 

[countrryboy]

I was just wondering about that.

Do they find much difference in the noses/scenting ability of a show or pet dog compared to working dogs? Althou i imagine ur dad is just handed 'a' dog and told to get on with it

Does seem strange ot folk who work there dogs where it is all about wot lines it has in pedigree, yet i know a couple of grouse keepers that just buy labs or springers from the local rescue centre and usually end up being decent enough dogs

Dunno if ur going to use ur do for stalking but a down command might come in handy for that too, any time it's going to be a right long sit, dog might relax more as knows it won't be moving for a while.

 

[pezz69]

Yep they do, if you have got the time and are willing to put the effort in you can make any dog a good dog.

I am a firm believer in that and have seen and helped do it many a time with dogs that come and go through this house.

They obvsiouly do help having the best lines etc etc, but is that what its about really? I know for a fact i would be more than a happy with a dog from just any old working lines as at the end of the day the dog is what you make it. It might be the best dog in the world but if you haven't got a clue what you are doing you might aswell not bother imho.

Nathan

​

I was just wondering about that.

Do they find much difference in the noses/scenting ability of a show or pet dog compared to working dogs? Althou i imagine ur dad is just handed 'a' dog and told to get on with it

Does seem strange ot folk who work there dogs where it is all about wot lines it has in pedigree, yet i know a couple of grouse keepers that just buy labs or springers from the local rescue centre and usually end up being decent enough dogs

Dunno if ur going to use ur do for stalking but a down command might come in handy for that too, any time it's going to be a right long sit, dog might relax more as knows it won't be moving for a while.

 

[baguio]

Sorry, Going to confuse u now but i know a couple off hpr trainers that train the down command and they insit the dog 'downs' rather than sits.
While ur points are spot on about marking birds but it doesn't seem to have effected them as both their dogs are FTCH.
They say it's an extra level, a dog can easily run in from a sit position, whereas from a down has to move to a sit before running in. Prob more important for hpr's because off the distance and speed they work at need the extra control, must admit i only teach the sit thou.
They tend to train a down but relax it to a sit as dog gets older more experienced, whereas often with the sit as dog gets wiser and worked more they do begin to creep a bit and less instant on sit

Like most gun dog training horses for courses, if ur doing hide work, duck flighting or at a peg, a down command may be handy for extra steadiness or get dog out of way, but not end off world as long as sit is solid and steady.

Countryboy, yes you are confusing the issue I'm afraid. The OP is training a clumber not an HPR. Clumbers work cover, HPR's work open spaces. HPR's have a neck so even in the Down position will still be able to see over the heather, sugar beat or whatever. A clumber in the Down in the middle of brambles is going to see nothing! Chalk and cheese springs to mind!
Concentrate on getting the basics 100% pezz before you worry about 'tricks' that you're unlikely to ever need. A dog sat under a high seat with you above it will quickly learn that he's going to be there for a while and lie down all on it's own if it wants to. If it doesn't then who cares? It doesn't need you to command it to lie down.
Baguio