While we are being as precise as possible, I don't aim at the "scapula ball joint" I use that as a guide to hit the Hilar top of the heart. Depending on the angle of the animal I may hit one ball joint on the way in or on the way out...
Copper bullets - shoulder or armpit?!
- Thread starter Markez
- Start date
So still too hard for most things over here?
There is an overlap between copper and its alloys as far as hardness goes. Copper in its hard state is considerably harder than annealed gilding metal.
And it will depend more on the thickness of the metal, the size of the hollow point, as to the energy required to take it beyond the yield point. Whether that is to fragment or to expand the petals.
I was referring to the GMX bullet/new CX bullet. I used to use the GMX in my 22 mag but they would ricochet left right and centre after passing through, likely because they've slowed down but failed to expand. I stopped using them when rabbits weren't dieing.
I would guess that the bullet was designed for tougher, thicker skinned quarry? While some think the copper debate has been done, I think we are still in early stages and one where we are currently using a lot of ammo designed in the US for a different application. This can be remedied via good communication and voting with our wallets. Having UK companies designed bullets for UK application is also a great step forward.
Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
I've seen lads shoot Sika with them and they performed fine
soft point ? in copper ? Those two dont go together , there must be an error in the description
Regards placement ? I take the best shot i am presented with ( with the proviso its clean Humane and isnt going to render the carcass useless ) . I would say i react rather than decide where i will place ?
I play safe as regards the wind and the range , those who say " i shoot all mt deer just here " well perhaps they shoot tame ones in enclosures, close up on windless days ?"
I dont use any copper other than Barnes , its not as good as lead by any means ! I think its better in every way other than windages at longer ranges !
I play safe as regards the wind and the range , those who say " i shoot all mt deer just here " well perhaps they shoot tame ones in enclosures, close up on windless days ?"
I dont use any copper other than Barnes , its not as good as lead by any means ! I think its better in every way other than windages at longer ranges !
Right you are, I use the Sellier & Bellot 130g soft point in lead. It was their 130g exergy copper round I was referring to. Operator error there
Copper is toxic but possibly less than lead because it does not fragment the same.
I have noticed you have made this statement a few times before and wondered at it.
Yes, copper can be toxic, but only when in excess. And only in the same way as oxygen and water are toxic in excess to our system.
Copper, like oxygen and water, is also vital to our system.
Without copper all manner of ills pertain.
Look up copper deficiency.
Lead has no known safe levels for our system, and has no useful function to perform within it.
Chalk and cheese.
Certainly the lack of frangibility in most of the lead free bullets available means that less meat is contaminated with metal particles than lead core bullets. The frangible front tin core of the RWS Evolution Green bullet and the Barnes MPG varmint round being the exceptions I am aware of.
Ingesting Copper usually through food or water can be lethal this could be a single dose
Or built up over a period of time a dose of between 10 and 20gr will be fatal.
While probably not as dangerous as lead it is not exactly safe and people should be aware of that.
What is more pertient is the form of a metal.
Swallowing a small amount of solid lead is unlikely to do you any harm at all as it passes through you.
Breathe in an equal amount of lead vapour and you won't feel so good.
Swallow a copper petal and it won't feel too good coming out...
Swallowing a small amount of solid lead is unlikely to do you any harm at all as it passes through you.
Breathe in an equal amount of lead vapour and you won't feel so good.
Swallow a copper petal and it won't feel too good coming out...
So did you shoot a creedmoor or a 6.5x55 as they are not the same thing?
Sorry that should be g not gr but still something we should be aware of.
With most non fragmenting copper or gilding metal bullets having near 99% retention, the one percent often being the ballistic tip, trying to build up a dose of 20g of copper, would take many thousands of bullets if any had been transferred to the meat you eat. The body is quite capable of regulating copper in the sytem in the normal course of events.
A 60% retention lead core soft point bullet can shed more than 20g lead and gilding metal jacket particles into a single carcass. There is no realistic comparison.
There really is no ”probably” less dangerous than lead…to either man or the carrion eaters.
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How many animals have you taken with copper bullets?
Petals often get left behind when large bones are struck, and these can get lodged into the meat.
Some designs even tout petals that are designed to shear off, but I doubt this equates to energy transfer inside the chest cavity, just secondary wound channels.
Nothing beats a good lead bullet for a humane kill.
Apologies my mistake...also with the g and gr
60% retention 150gr soft point can shed 30gr of lead and copper alloy particles in a carcass.
30gr = 3.88g
Why?
A fragment travelling at 2500fps requires energy to push through tissue, how is that energy not transferred to the tissue, or to the bone that stops it?
Mass.
A fragment weighing one grain or so isn't going to have the same effect as a proper bullet that disintegrates inside the chest cavity.
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