Coterminous certificates

[markojosh]

Hi All,

I have had my FAC for around 12 months and am kicking myself as I should have applied for a Coterminious Certificate at the time as I would now like to add a shotgun to my cabinet.

Does anyone have any experiance with adding a shotgun after issue of FAC? Can I can have a Coterminious Cert retrospectivley issued or is it just a case of sucking it up and managing 2 lots of renewals?

Lastly, do I take it that if I am applying for a SGC the FEO would still need to come round and and interview ect or would this be negated as I have an FAC?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

Mark

 

[VSS]

I believe that when you apply for your SGC you'll be able to request that it expires at the same time as your existing FAC (ie, coterminous).

 

[Len the dog]

When I applied for my FAC, I overlooked making it coterminous to my existing SGC. Upon receipt of my application, my FEO contacted me to suggest doing so, at an additional cost of the princely sum of £2.
When I received my FAC, it came with a new SGC with a coterminous expiry date, with the added bonus that the new expiry date on my SGC was a couple of years beyond what it would have been.
And yes, the FEO will almost certainly want to make a separate visit to review your security arrangements.

PS
I always found North Wales Firearms to be very sensible in their dealings with both myself and my father.

 

[markojosh]

When I applied for my FAC, I overlooked making it coterminous to my existing SGC. Upon receipt of my application, my FEO contacted me to suggest doing so, at an additional cost of the princely sum of £2.
When I received my FAC, it came with a new SGC with a coterminous expiry date, with the added bonus that the new expiry date on my SGC was a couple of years beyond what it would have been.
And yes, the FEO will almost certainly want to make a separate visit to review your security arrangements.

PS
I always found North Wales Firearms to be very sensible in their dealings with both myself and my father.

Thanks for this! Yes my FEO and the service from North Wales police has been faultless in fairness.

 

[markojosh]

I believe that when you apply for your SGC you'll be able to request that it expires at the same time as your existing FAC (ie, coterminous).

Thats ideal. Thanks for the response

 

[doric_prince]

Hi All,

I have had my FAC for around 12 months and am kicking myself as I should have applied for a Coterminious Certificate at the time as I would now like to add a shotgun to my cabinet.

Does anyone have any experiance with adding a shotgun after issue of FAC? Can I can have a Coterminious Cert retrospectivley issued or is it just a case of sucking it up and managing 2 lots of renewals?

Lastly, do I take it that if I am applying for a SGC the FEO would still need to come round and and interview ect or would this be negated as I have an FAC?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

Mark

I have experience of trying to combine a sgc & FAC as coterminous.

I checked with feo and basc at the time, so certain the following is correct;

It’s like this; you cannot go coterminous until you FAC expires or at the point of application. I was trying to go coterminous at the point of renewal of my sgc but as my FAC still had 1 year left till renewal I could not. I had to renew my sgc separately and then 1 year later when renewal of my FAC was due go coterminous. This required 2x doctors medical reference and 2 applications and 2 separate fees, frustrating but that is the position.

I questioned both police Scotland and basc on this but the problem is the legislation is drafted in such a way that the FAC takes presidence over a sgc and its renewal date / initial application date is the driving factor on when a coterminous certificate can be sought. I even considered relinquishing my FAC and reapplying along side my sgc renewal- but too many hoops to jump through like disposable of rifles and ammo!

As you already hold the FAC you will be caught by this position. ( I believe it would be different if the other way round).

I couldn’t believe this situation and revisited the legislation myself to confirm it.

If you don’t believe me, ask basc / other shooting organisations for advice.

 

[VSS]

I have experience of trying to combine a sgc & FAC as coterminous.

I checked with feo and basc at the time, so certain the following is correct;

It’s like this; you cannot go coterminous until you FAC expires or at the point of application. I was trying to go coterminous at the point of renewal of my sgc but as my FAC still had 1 year left till renewal I could not. I had to renew my sgc separately and then 1 year later when renewal of my FAC was due go coterminous. This required 2x doctors medical reference and 2 applications and 2 separate fees, frustrating but that is the position.

I questioned both police Scotland and basc on this but the problem is the legislation is drafted in such a way that the FAC takes presidence over a sgc and its renewal date / initial application date is the driving factor on when a coterminous certificate can be sought. I even considered relinquishing my FAC and reapplying along side my sgc renewal- but too many hoops to jump through like disposable of rifles and ammo!

As you already hold the FAC you will be caught by this position. ( I believe it would be different if the other way round).

I couldn’t believe this situation and revisited the legislation myself to confirm it.

If you don’t believe me, ask basc / other shooting organisations for advice.

But the OP isn't trying to renew an existing SGC, so I don't think he'll be caught up in that way.
(And besides, as others have alluded to above, North Wales Police firearms dept are very accommodating of anything that makes their's and our life easier).

 

[chriswjx]

I was the opposite of you, but I got my SGC then 12 months later, decided to get my FAC.

Got charged for an coterminous renewal/grant, and my SGC was reissued with the new date (from memory) alongside with the new FAC.

Did have to get a new medical and interview though.

 

[Len the dog]

(And besides, as others have alluded to above, North Wales Police firearms dept are very accommodating of anything that makes their's and our life easier).

I now reside under Cleveland Police, they too have been nothing but helpful and sensible in the many years since I left N Wales.

In fact, I won a nice Musto jacket for the letter of the month in Sporting Gun, praising the service from Cleveland Police Firearms.

Talk to your FEO, at the end of the day it’s what they say that goes.

 

[Dickie]

You just apply for a SGC and when your FAC is up for renewal you can choose to go coterminous but will loose the year or so on your SGC or carry on with 2 different expiry dates.

 

[doric_prince]

Hi All,

I have had my FAC for around 12 months and am kicking myself as I should have applied for a Coterminious Certificate at the time as I would now like to add a shotgun to my cabinet.

Does anyone have any experiance with adding a shotgun after issue of FAC? Can I can have a Coterminious Cert retrospectivley issued or is it just a case of sucking it up and managing 2 lots of renewals?

Lastly, do I take it that if I am applying for a SGC the FEO would still need to come round and and interview ect or would this be negated as I have an FAC?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

Mark

Let us know how you get on please. Thanks

 

[doric_prince]

But the OP isn't trying to renew an existing SGC, so I don't think he'll be caught up in that way.
(And besides, as others have alluded to above, North Wales Police firearms dept are very accommodating of anything that makes their's and our life easier).

Appreciate you views. However, as per the advice I received, My understanding is that it’s not the question of if a grant or renewal of a sgc is the deciding Factor, it’s the fact that an existing FAC is held that determines what timing a coterminous certificate can occur. It’s the legislation that dictates this approach. If the local feo can bypass it, great your in luck, mine wouldn’t entertain it and cost me an extra £170.

 

[ContinShots]

Hi All,

I have had my FAC for around 12 months and am kicking myself as I should have applied for a Coterminious Certificate at the time as I would now like to add a shotgun to my cabinet.

Does anyone have any experiance with adding a shotgun after issue of FAC? Can I can have a Coterminious Cert retrospectivley issued or is it just a case of sucking it up and managing 2 lots of renewals?

Lastly, do I take it that if I am applying for a SGC the FEO would still need to come round and and interview ect or would this be negated as I have an FAC?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

Mark

You can ask for the SGC to expire at the same time as the FAC, but you'll have to pay the full fee for the application. The fee reduction is because they can do one enquiry with a joint application, but they'll have to do another one for you because the SGC is done at a different time. You'll also need another GP report.

 

[VSS]

, it’s the fact that an existing FAC is held that determines what timing a coterminous certificate can occur.

Yes.
That's what I said in post #2

You can ask for the SGC to expire at the same time as the FAC, but you'll have to pay the full fee for the application. The fee reduction is because they can do one enquiry with a joint application, but they'll have to do another one for you because the SGC is done at a different time. You'll also need another GP report.

Exactly this ^^^
And all subsequent renewals will be coterminous, so qualify for the fee reduction.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Just had a variation, change of address and sgc grant done at the same time.
Was told it would be coterminous as the fac was only a year old, but it came back as two separate dates

The guns will get put on a friends sgc and I’ll surrender it and apply at the same time as the fac
When the time comes obv
Am not paying twice for terrible service

 

[doric_prince]

Can I can have a Coterminious Cert retrospectivley issued or is it just a case of sucking it up and managing 2 lots of renewals?

You may have seen the recent ukg announcement on licensing fees. Of interest to you will be the paragraph at the end about early renewals. As it appears many will be considering renewing early ahead of large increases coming in on 5th February…..

Good luck

Circular 001/2025: Firearms (Variation of Fees) Order 2025

www.gov.uk

 

[markojosh]

I have experience of trying to combine a sgc & FAC as coterminous.

I checked with feo and basc at the time, so certain the following is correct;

It’s like this; you cannot go coterminous until you FAC expires or at the point of application. I was trying to go coterminous at the point of renewal of my sgc but as my FAC still had 1 year left till renewal I could not. I had to renew my sgc separately and then 1 year later when renewal of my FAC was due go coterminous. This required 2x doctors medical reference and 2 applications and 2 separate fees, frustrating but that is the position.

I questioned both police Scotland and basc on this but the problem is the legislation is drafted in such a way that the FAC takes presidence over a sgc and its renewal date / initial application date is the driving factor on when a coterminous certificate can be sought. I even considered relinquishing my FAC and reapplying along side my sgc renewal- but too many hoops to jump through like disposable of rifles and ammo!

As you already hold the FAC you will be caught by this position. ( I believe it would be different if the other way round).

I couldn’t believe this situation and revisited the legislation myself to confirm it.

If you don’t believe me, ask basc / other shooting organisations for advice.

 

[markojosh]

I have experience of trying to combine a sgc & FAC as coterminous.

I checked with feo and basc at the time, so certain the following is correct;

It’s like this; you cannot go coterminous until you FAC expires or at the point of application. I was trying to go coterminous at the point of renewal of my sgc but as my FAC still had 1 year left till renewal I could not. I had to renew my sgc separately and then 1 year later when renewal of my FAC was due go coterminous. This required 2x doctors medical reference and 2 applications and 2 separate fees, frustrating but that is the position.

I questioned both police Scotland and basc on this but the problem is the legislation is drafted in such a way that the FAC takes presidence over a sgc and its renewal date / initial application date is the driving factor on when a coterminous certificate can be sought. I even considered relinquishing my FAC and reapplying along side my sgc renewal- but too many hoops to jump through like disposable of rifles and ammo!

As you already hold the FAC you will be caught by this position. ( I believe it would be different if the other way round).

I couldn’t believe this situation and revisited the legislation myself to confirm it.

If you don’t believe me, ask basc / other shooting organisations for advice.

I just head back from my FEO on the subject and he pretty much echoed what you say here. He could extend a SGC, but FAC's cannot be extended even if he felt it was appropriate.

 

[markojosh]

You may have seen the recent ukg announcement on licensing fees. Of interest to you will be the paragraph at the end about early renewals. As it appears many will be considering renewing early ahead of large increases coming in on 5th February…..

Good luck

Circular 001/2025: Firearms (Variation of Fees) Order 2025

www.gov.uk

Thanks, Much appreciated

 

[doric_prince]

I just head back from my FEO on the subject and he pretty much echoed what you say here. He could extend a SGC, but FAC's cannot be extended even if he felt it was appropriate.

I thought that was the case, useful to know it isn’t just a police Scotland approach.