Countryfile

[Hayduke]

^^ unless they have wings of course, predators on wings have been successfully brought back, and then there's beaver which according to some of the antis are predators because they eat their fush. We almost rid ourselves of otter, And there's pole cats which were almost pushed to extinction and now recolonising much of their former range. Pine Marten are expanding their range although not yet all over the UK. And I'd certainly like to see wild cat back over their former range. Bechsteins, Barbastelle and Horseshoe bats are hanging on. So plenty of examples of releases or restoration of predators lost or annihilated to the verge of extinction.

 

[paul k]

^^ unless they have wings of course, predators on wings have been successfully brought back, and then there's beaver which according to some of the antis are predators because they eat their fush. We almost rid ourselves of otter, And there's pole cats which were almost pushed to extinction and now recolonising much of their former range. Pine Marten are expanding their range although not yet all over the UK. And I'd certainly like to see wild cat back over their former range. Bechsteins, Barbastelle and Horseshoe bats are hanging on. So plenty of examples of releases or restoration of predators lost or annihilated to the verge of extinction.

It depends how broadly you define "predator", I had in mind apex predators like the wolf, lynx and bear and none of these extinct species is ever going to be officially reintroduced in the wild. There just might be escapes from captivity like the mink but some would say we already have some non native big cats through this eventuality. None of the predators you mentioned has been officially reintroduced as they were never totally extinct (I don't regard beavers as predators) but some certainly are or have been locally reintroduced or encouraged in some areas. Pine Martens are only expanding their range in Scotland but are extremely rare if not extinct in England and Wales.

As far as I am aware the only extinct avian predator that has been deliberately reintroduced is the sea eagle, I don't count the red kite as they were never extinct and the indigenous population in Wales is still the largest. Goshawks were very rare but not extinct and new populations were established from escaped falconers' birds (or more correctly austringers). The small eagle owl population originated from escapes and possible recolonisation from Scandinavia rather than deliberate reintroduction.

The main point is that no large apex predator will ever be officially released in the wild, their requirement for territory, the inevitability of predation on livestock, the current nature of the countryside and public opinion would never allow it. Even those who think the wolf should be controlling red deer in Scotland should have a look at the Lower 48 in the US where reintroduced wolves have substantially damaged elk populations and predate livestock.

 

[sikamalc]

What a load of ill informed böllocks. The lynxs move into your area and all your roe will be gone in short order. They will take fallow as well. But still its OK they can just eat all the sheep in the UK before they move on to the deer. In a country like the UK you really don't want boar either. True they are good in the forest but i seem to recall that England has quite a lot of agriculture.

100% correct sir.

Having managed a large estate next door to Mr Lister's who as we all know has been banging the drum about re wilding in the highlands of Scotland I can tell you one thing.

He is no where near releasing Wolves into the UK, than I am becoming an astronaut

On the estate he bought, which is about 22,000 acres it was discovered I believe, and I might be wrong here. But I was told the maximum amount the ground would sustain was 2.

You cannot turn the clock back AND CHANGE HISTORY. Lynx, Wolves have no place in the UK, there are large areas which might sustain a population, but there are also 65 million people wanting to also share it at certain times. And anyone who believes that Lynx do not attack domestic stock............... dream on.

 

[neilst]

The only good thing about countryfile is the weather forecast!!

 

[rogue trader]

You all have failed to bring up the most important point made on this issue of Countryfile. Ellie opened the program with "so lets talk about our beavers".

 

[Hayduke]

I'm going back to watch it.

Well done you might have found something we can all agree on. Great thread hijack.

 

[george joy]

The only good thing about countryfile is the weather forecast!!

I disagree - what about Ellie and Helen

 

[neilst]

Fair play, I might send a email and ask if we can have an Indepth review of very tight johdpours!!

 

[jimbo1984]

I'd sooner be on fire than watch townie file Ellie or no Ellie , it's full of utter crap

 

[Hayduke]

Almost all the predators I mentioned above are apex predators.

Lynx have been successfully re-introduced or are re-establishing in countries as densly populated or more so than Britain, the argument that there are too many people in Britain doesn't hold up.

 

[sikamalc]

Almost all the predators I mentioned above are apex predators.

Lynx have been successfully re-introduced or are re-establishing in countries as densly populated or more so than Britain, the argument that there are too many people in Britain doesn't hold up.

I would be interested to know which countries you are referring too. And whether or not they are the same size as the UK. I think it holds up well in my opinion, what other countries the same size as the UK with 65 million living there are thinking of or have re introduced Lynx??

And as I have said before to say that Lynx do not take domestic stock................ try telling that to some of my friends in Finland.

 

[Caberhill]

Almost all the predators I mentioned above are apex predators.

Lynx have been successfully re-introduced or are re-establishing in countries as densly populated or more so than Britain, the argument that there are too many people in Britain doesn't hold up.

I'd too be interested in which countries are having success with the reintroduction of Lnyx.

Out of interest, can you name one detailed location in the UK in which you believe Lynx would be suited to?

 

[Hayduke]

Wikipedia lists countries by population densities, Belgium, Germany and Switzerland are in similar ball park as Britain. Whilst a number of countries in the list with greater population density than Britain have some really BIG apex predators and megafauna.

I never said lynx don't take sheep. In Norway 2.5million sheep are grazed free-range and unshepherded during the summer in woodlands where lynx occur, losses typically amount to between 5,000 and 10,000 sheep per year - 0.3% (Odden Journal of Wildlife Management, 66). In western Europe where sheep are grazed in open pasture (like in Britain) losses are very much lower, where only a small number of Lynx within the population kill sheep and only at very specific locations. Sheep loss mitigation: problem lynx repeatedly taking sheep shot under licence, use of shepherds or livestock guarding dogs, subsidising protection measures, compensation for losses (half of hill farm income comes from the taxpayer as subsidies).

Where? Uplands with large areas of forest, woods and/or scrub. Dartmoor was mooted as a candidate site to set up another population of the smaller Pardel lynx. The population in Spain has crashed and it is the most endangered species of the cat family and a candidate for the first 21st century extinction of not only a European mammal but also of any cat worldwide.

 

[LuckyEddie]

The reason the Spanish lynx population has collapsed is due to the collapse of the cork industry.
New corks are either plasticky or screw caps and the old groves have been mainly cleared or are neglected and dilapidated.
Hence hunting has changed dramatically and become more difficult for the Spanish lynx.
So why should we have a Spanish derivative if the Spaniards can't manage to keep the line going???

 

[6.5/284matt]

I'm a bit on fence about this subject. Although I'd love to see some of these magnificent animals wondering around our countryside I do feel were a bit over crowded. Saying that though, just going on land area and population levels for suitability and if my calculations are correct working on km2 per person, Scotland fairs quite good to turf out a few big cats out, although you'll have to change that wall you put up into a 15' electric fence because we definitely ain't got room for them down here.

1.0.0623 Finland
2.0.0151 Scotland
3.0.0051 Switzerland
4.0.0044 Germany
5.0.0027 England & Wales
6.0.0027 Belgium

Matt.

 

[JabaliHunter]

... and a bit of lynx hunting!

 

[sikamalc]

Well it still don't stack up, and introducing Lynx into the UK along with Wolf is not something I can see happening in my lifetime.

I hope to be able to visit my friends in Finland later this year and help them out

 

[Tamus]

I detest the use of the expression "reintroduction" of these species to the UK.

The UK that existed, when these species last became extinct here, no longer exists.

Ergo, it would not be a reintroduction at all but it would instead be be an "introduction"... of species totally alien to the environment into which they would/might be introduced...

Dreamers and their misguided, misinformed dreams...

Of course, the principally urbanite team, who make Countryfile, wouldn't have a clue about any of this... they just find it a romantic idea. Clots!

 

[Hayduke]

And why not where they are a real problem and people pay.

They would make a contribution to upland/forest economies - as they are with tourism in the Harz.

Malc I hope you live a long long happy life and see it. "soft" release of lynx or release under licence will probably happen within the next 10-20 years.

 

[Hayduke]

I detest the use of the expression "reintroduction" . . . . .

Britain once again has enough forest to sustain lynx, environment suited to them. They were native fauna therefore Reintroduction is correct terminology.