Cow shooting!
- Thread starter Munty_Hunter
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kev.rem700
Well-Known Member
The cow would have been pumped up as it was out of the norm with people running around like numptys.
Cows are creatures of habbit anything out of the norm soon gets them going.
Nothing but a head shot will drop a pumped up cow/bull.Mind a cow has very small area to hit in order to hit the brain but any "marksman" should be able to hit no problem.
ATB Kev
pumped up an jumping about they use soft points probably punch thro if hit any way maybe a body shot was considered a safer choice we have n idea of th area and howsafe a particular shot is . PLus there a good chance the guy has never fired that exact rifle before the ARV guys train on one set of guns and deploy with a seperate set that have never been fired and are bore sighted by the armouer if used on a job they are bagged up for forensics and never used again . I assume the Sniper teams are similer and they are limited on max range they can shoot at . probably accurate enough for center mass shots on humans at sub 100yrds etc not tiny brain shots on a jumping cow
I don't think chasing a cow for miles is doing any good. Do they never try to corral these animals with a view to re-capture.
I deal with cows every day and it is rare to find a 'bad' blue. Turn it into a field, yard etc and give it some time to calm down. Get it recaptured.
I wouldn't really want to be the person shooting the animal, but if the police are not equipped and experienced to do so then they should get someone who is. It looks bad to the general public and reflect badly on the police.
I deal with cows every day and it is rare to find a 'bad' blue. Turn it into a field, yard etc and give it some time to calm down. Get it recaptured.
I wouldn't really want to be the person shooting the animal, but if the police are not equipped and experienced to do so then they should get someone who is. It looks bad to the general public and reflect badly on the police.
kev.rem700
Well-Known Member
Well said i work in a large dairy farm you need to no cattle to deal with them.
roedeerred
Well-Known Member
I think that the idea of shooting an enemy soldier is most definately to kill that soldier. It just happens that FMJs are what soldiers use to shoot each other.
Druid
Well-Known Member
Good god! Are you saying they attend a job with an unzeroed rifle (as I was taught to consider it) for defence of the general populace!
Been reading some 'horror' stories here - and I cannot deny they DO ( sometimes ) happen - but shouldn't.
'Normal' Police Firearms Officers ( who usually carry 9mm and 5.56mm carbines ) are NOT usually - and SHOULD NOT - be tasked with trying to dispatch escaped/dangerous cattle beasts. That job should, and normally is, tasked to trained 'rifle officers' - who are trained with, and carry rifles of a minimum calibre of .243 and usually .308 calibre. Shotguns with rifled slug used to be the 'recommended round' years ago - but their occasional 'failings' ( unless at close range with a head shot ) rendered them sometimes ineffective and thus obsolete. Head shots with a minimum .243 calibre are now the normal and recommended point of aim - as laid down by 'strict guidelines' ( covering the whole issue of 'animal destruction' ) issued by ACPO and ACPO(s).
The vast number of escaped/dangerous cattle beasts etc. ( who require to be dispatched by Police ) are usually dispatched quickly and cleanly with one shot ( invariably to the head ) - BUT - there are some 'horror stories' - which ( in an ideal world ) should not happen- but do for any number of reasons - and yes sometimes they happen through 'human failure'. Sadly - it is human nature to concentrate on the few 'bad' instances - not the 'many' good instances, and there are quite a number of escaped/dangerous cattle beasts that have to be dispatched by Police throughout the UK every year.
And yes - I agree that it is a possibility to 'calm' a beast down with some other cattle brought to the scene etc. - but it is not always possible nor feasible, especially at 'peak hour' on a busy motorway for example.
'Normal' Police Firearms Officers ( who usually carry 9mm and 5.56mm carbines ) are NOT usually - and SHOULD NOT - be tasked with trying to dispatch escaped/dangerous cattle beasts. That job should, and normally is, tasked to trained 'rifle officers' - who are trained with, and carry rifles of a minimum calibre of .243 and usually .308 calibre. Shotguns with rifled slug used to be the 'recommended round' years ago - but their occasional 'failings' ( unless at close range with a head shot ) rendered them sometimes ineffective and thus obsolete. Head shots with a minimum .243 calibre are now the normal and recommended point of aim - as laid down by 'strict guidelines' ( covering the whole issue of 'animal destruction' ) issued by ACPO and ACPO(s).
The vast number of escaped/dangerous cattle beasts etc. ( who require to be dispatched by Police ) are usually dispatched quickly and cleanly with one shot ( invariably to the head ) - BUT - there are some 'horror stories' - which ( in an ideal world ) should not happen- but do for any number of reasons - and yes sometimes they happen through 'human failure'. Sadly - it is human nature to concentrate on the few 'bad' instances - not the 'many' good instances, and there are quite a number of escaped/dangerous cattle beasts that have to be dispatched by Police throughout the UK every year.
And yes - I agree that it is a possibility to 'calm' a beast down with some other cattle brought to the scene etc. - but it is not always possible nor feasible, especially at 'peak hour' on a busy motorway for example.
sorry to burst your bubble but your wrong , if you kill an emeny soldier thats one man down , if you wound him two of his mates will stop to help him making three men down and a screaming wriggly man is very bad for moral . wounded soldiers also tie up resorces as they are delt with away from the forward action . But who cares about any of this as none of it is stalking related at all
Thats what I ment stan
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
I have seen first hand what a trained police marksmen can do with what was essentially a long barrelled pistol and the guidance of a vet telling him where EXACTLY to shoot can acheive.
An RTA and a wounded deer holding up under a tree at 60yds
dropped it with one shot.
having been involved in numerous livestock/bloodstock shootings I also know how easy it can be to drop a shire horse, race horse or rampaging bull, rogue cow, with one shot.
Anyone who takes 5 (or 4, or 3, ...) shots to kill at a cow in a restricted range environment is either poorly equipped to the extreme or incompetant (or has an incompetant senior officer).
This was an incident that had lasted long enough to muster numerous cars, officers and a helicopter, but they apparently did not have the sense or resources to either contact or employ someone who knew about cows/livestock or anatomy (if they had it would not have happened)
I cannot conceive a single situation where 5 shots would be necessary.
a wounded and ****ed off cow instantly becomes a much bigger issue that one that is just ****ed off!
never mind if a bullet passes through the window, what if the shot and wounded cow takes out mrs Jones and her daughter in law out shopping?!
the probability of a cow injuring someone in a town is a hell of a lot higher than a stray bullet hitting someone
Now consider this. if you are witnessed shooting a deer and it takes 5 shots, joe public captures it on his phone and calls the RSPCA......
does he have reason to question anyones shooting ability and equipment?
he may not know what calibre of weapon the shooter had or what the circumstances..
Do you think the judge hearing the case for causing undue suffering to an animal with 15 RSPCA lawyers on their side and you on the other gives two hoots?!
hughsurrey
Well-Known Member
This reminded me of a front page story from the metro a few months back
Last few cows I shot we with a 308 or 7mm rm. no fuss and no second shot needed. There should be only one shot needed with any of the weapons mentioned above if they are employed properly. Living in the real world then two shots may occasionally be needed but 5 and above reeks of spray and pray. To be honest reports like this are all too common (there was one similar in Kendal a few years ago). Unfortunately I don't think the training is up to the job. I suppose the other thing is that it may very well be the first living thing that the officer has killed. Buck fever can get to anyone!
jamross65
Well-Known Member
The recurring theme in this thread is that sniper or not, he is being asked to put a bullet into an animal with which he may not have much experience of its anatomy. Many on here if asked to shoot a cow would happily volunteer and take a pop at the head, but would you really know exactly where the brain sits within it at any given angle. I wouldn't.
There is a highland cow skull that is on the wall in the lunch hut on a shoot I go to. It was shot by the farmer. His first bullet from a 243, can be seen very clearly imbedded in the bone right on the edge around the eye socket. The base has not even penetrated to get flush with the bone. The second shot has gone cleanly through the skull and into the brain cavity.
Point being, he shoots plenty beasts and made an arse of the first one. It can happen to anyone, and the calibre that does it on one occasion may not always make a clean job of it!
There is a highland cow skull that is on the wall in the lunch hut on a shoot I go to. It was shot by the farmer. His first bullet from a 243, can be seen very clearly imbedded in the bone right on the edge around the eye socket. The base has not even penetrated to get flush with the bone. The second shot has gone cleanly through the skull and into the brain cavity.
Point being, he shoots plenty beasts and made an arse of the first one. It can happen to anyone, and the calibre that does it on one occasion may not always make a clean job of it!
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
He still only used two!
My father was a vet and was regularly called out to RTA's and rogue animals. Unless already incapcitated enough to use a humane killer against the skull there was always a marksman attending.
They always asked where to shoot, or more to the point "where do you want it shot?"
where was the vet?
the thing that irriates me about this story (and the Mail in general) is the story ranges from "missed one, killed it with the next" to "shot it four times but didnt knock it down"
I msut say the cow in the photo doesnt look overly agressive either!!
Wingy
Well-Known Member
Has anyone on here ever shot a deer that didn't drop on the spot? If so and you had the opportunity to take a second or even third shot did you? or would you? And if so does that make you a s**t shot?
I've not read the article as with most of the story's in the Mail it's printed to sell papers not necessary to report the facts.
I've not read the article as with most of the story's in the Mail it's printed to sell papers not necessary to report the facts.
I care, because although it is not stalking realted, it is perpetuating on this respectable forum a view that I consider, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, a long-standing piece urban/military mythology: and while I don't doubt that wounded enemies have a negative effect on enemy morale it seems to me that to wound, rather than kill, an enemy who is trying to kill you would have at least as much of a negative effect on your own morale and that of your mates.
Is there in fact any evidence that the FMJ bullets used by the military are designed to wound, rather than kill, an enemy combatant?
Are our soldiers trained to take deliberately non-lethal shots?
Are our soldiers expected to use personal weapons of deliberately limited lethality against enemies who are trying their best to kill them?
I should point out, just in case anyone wonders, that I have no military experience at all. I first heard the 'designed to wound rather than kill' yarn about the 5.56mm round as an air cadet in the 1980s. We still had No4 rifles, so we'd have been OK anyway: but the idea struck me as odd at the time, and despite keeping an eye out for it, I have yet to read any evidence to support this hypothesis.
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