cut or button rifle barrels versus hammer forged barrels

[Muir]

Laurie, i always thought custom button rifled barrels are rifled before profilling, in fact as far as i know, the top makers rifle parallel blanks, stress relieve them before contouring, then air gauge them and sell them according to spec, ie match, super match or standard and select grade etc...

Ian.

Ian,
I think he's referring to the bore diameter opening up on a blank after profiling. I asked the owner of Green Mountain Rifle Barrel about that once and he just shrugged, saying it depends on the machinery, the barrel, the process of rifling...

Which brings up a point: Any form of rifling can deliver poor accuracy if it's poorly executed, and all three will deliver great accuracy if done well. Generalities are just that. If all the top barrels, representing each form of manufacturing, were placed into out hands we would hardly be able to tell the difference, accuracy wise.

Anecdotally, A class mate and I were turning down a cut rifled, fifty caliber barrel blank made by P.O. Ackley to make a 510 Wells Express. As we turned the barrel is began to distort. We were cold turning it in back gear and still it was starting to wobble between centers. We increased the depth of the cut, decreased the depth. It distorted even more. Used a follower rest. No good! The visibly curved barrel ended up in the scrap heap 50 ft from where it was made. When we cursed it, we were told he'd made it from a train axle, the theory being that all those rail miles would have relieved and stresses in the steel. He got it wrong int hat case, at least....~Muir

 

[enfieldspares]

BSA air rifle barrels...some say the best in the business...are hammer forged. What hammer forging gives that cutting cannot AFAIK is choking or "taper" bored barrels. Which some say are superior to parallel bore barrels. Just to cloud the issue!

And, hey, we haven't even touched on progressive rifling, or Enfield form vs Metford form vs "polygon" form vs "oval" boring or Whitworth style mechanical fit rifling. Nor four vs five vs "multi" (think Marlin) groove land and groove count.

I think that the reputation of better accuracy on bespoke cut rifled barrels is a lot to do with the fact they are bespoke (custom) made. So they go onto rifles where all the other inputs such as bolt face trueing, bolt lug truing, muzzle crowning, bedding and etc. are all done to the best possible degree.

And a certain residual belief, some might say snobbery, that hand made must be better than machine made. Once upon a time Rolls Royce car engines were the best because of this? Nowadays some say, if God made car engines they would be Honda engines. Or somesuch brand. As in car engines machine made is now the best.

 

[swarovski]

Maybe my 6.5 06 accuracy issues at 1000yds is purely down to weight to power (foot poundage) then rather than the type of barrel making.i will weigh it later.at a guess 13 to 14lb scoped with bipod and muzzle brake on.is there a known weight that rifles perform better.i know br and ft have weight limits.maybe are experts will know this.

 

[swarovski]

My 6.5 06 fighting weight was 12lb 4oz .

 

[smokey]

i can offer no comment on the accuracy difference between one and the other but from a metallurgy point of view hammer forged is superior in every way (i do work for a number of military arms manufacturers all over the world and this statement comes from scientific research that has been substantiated not butts talk from the bench rest crowd)

 

[ejg]

i can offer no comment on the accuracy difference between one and the other but from a metallurgy point of view hammer forged is superior in every way (i do work for a number of military arms manufacturers all over the world and this statement comes from scientific research that has been substantiated not butts talk from the bench rest crowd)

Bloody useless if it doesn't shoot to the level wanted.
Best research is done in the bench rest circles, look at facts and results not some scientist working for some company....
Bench rest competitors take their hobby serious and invest huge time in developing what is best at the time, they are not stupid and mostly not profit driven.
Look at the discussions that erupted about the German G36 and lack of accuracy with the hammer forged barrel.
Of course you can find a hammer forged barrel that will shoot well but mostly it will wander when getting warmer.
The best way to prove the point would be to rock up at a BR competition and show the boys how it is done.
edi

 

[norcan]

In scandinavia, the Sauer 200 STR is used in competition, with some 4-500 000 active shooters.

They mostly use hammer forged barrels, that shoot tiny tiny groups.

And match winning groups with 6,5x55 are in 3-5000 rounds. 8-10.000 in 308

 

[ChesterP]

I find the arguments for cut rifling very persuasive, but also the facts of results just as compelling. This from Tikka's own website:

[FONT=&amp]In 1999 fall British long range bench rest championship was won with a Tikka Continental, cal. 6,5x55. The range was 1000 yards, 10 shots, diameter of all impacts: 4,4"
[/FONT]
This from a cold hammer forged barrel.[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

 

[ejg]

In scandinavia, the Sauer 200 STR is used in competition, with some 4-500 000 active shooters.

They mostly use hammer forged barrels, that shoot tiny tiny groups.

And match winning groups with 6,5x55 are in 3-5000 rounds. 8-10.000 in 308

If they compete against each other they do well.... otherwise one does not hear much good. Barrels too thin, stocks heavy.
They do not do much good in other competitions.

Chester, of course there is no control over where a hammer forged barrel will wander too... and no guarantee that it will. There are some that shoot well. In the good old days they tested loads of rifles and those that shot well were given to the snipers.
Nowadays we can build sniper or target rifles and the better ones don't use hammer forged barrels.
edi