Deer - best aim point

[Foxyboy43]

Thoroughly bored and suffering from cabin fever so I was reading a number of articles on tinternet and came across a very interesting piece on effective game killing by Terminal Ballistics Research. The key point in this article centres on the best spot to shoot deer an extract of which I have copied below:-
"And from the front line of the front leg through to the ball joint intersection lies the autonomic plexus. This is a major network of nerves which when hit soundly, causes instant collapse and death. A shot in this area has the potential to destroy the autonomic plexus along with the forward portions of the lungs and locomotive muscles and bones. The autonomic plexus (sometimes called hilar zone) is the most useful aiming point for fast killing. "
In essence this counters what the author refers to the "European tradition" of aiming at the centre of the shoulder and sets out in pretty convincing detail why "forward" of centre shoulder (i.e. centred horizontally but in line with the forward edge of the foreleg) is the best point of aim for "fast kills". I would be interested in hearing the (constructive) views of experienced SD members please.

 

[Stalker62]

Hilar all day.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Any part of the cns will drop it, the 'hilar' as you mention works a treat. Do a search on here and you will find what you want to know

 

[User00033]

I’ve written extensively on here about the hilar zone. Do some searches with “shot placement” and “hilar zone”. Lots of pictures, diagrams videos and so on. And arguments, of course.

I disagree with Foster on the “European tradition of aiming at the centre of the shoulder”.

The European tradition has been in my experience the classic “meat saver” shot, avoiding the shoulder altogether - in the “crease” just behind the foreleg, hoping to directly hit the heart whilst avoiding saleable musculature. This shot will usually result in a runner, until blood pressure reduces to the point the animal can no longer function.

The key thing about the hilar shot, is that is a more bankable and potentially effective shot if the animal is quartering away or towards. It is a simple matter of imagining the bullet’s trajectory across the chest cavity, at the right height. With an expanding fragmenting bullet, the diagonal rather than perpendicular trajectory collects a lot more of the vitals. It is also more likely to avoid the humerus leg bone, which can easily deflect a bullet away from the hilar zone. A perpendicular (i.e. broadside) shot that is slightly off is more likely to result in a runner.

The key thing to remember - this is where Foster should be updating his material (he is, to publish on the Norma website) - is to get your head around what the hilar zone actually represents medically. Once the “zone” is understood in terms of it’s multiple functions - breathing, arteries, blood flow, lungs, heart, autonomic CNS, and what the autonomic CNS actually controls (and how it links to the brain), it’s a lot easier to get the confidence to target it.

Hold a hilar zone in your hands and have a rummage around enough times, and you’ll soon know exactly where it is, and how to destroy it with one bang flop shot. Doesn’t need a bazooka, I shoot deer regularly in the hilar with a .223 or .243 and off they go, rolling down the hill.

 

[Mungo]

£2 says this degenerates into another head shooting hand bag battle...

My favourite totally depends on context.

Open ground, plenty of light to work with and solitary animal: classic heart/lung, avoiding the leg/shoulder. Will often run a bit, but nice clean carcass.

Thick cover, running out of light, multiple animals: high shoulder shot. Lose meat, but stop them running. I like the idea of the hilar, but have not been able to consistently hit it, so prefer high shoulder.

 

[User00033]

£4

Actually, £8

 

[TheCornishman]

Took a lesson in this from the Dodgy one above when 1st setting out in stalking. I had experienced poor reactions to soft points on roe deer and a conversation about projectiles also headed this way.

I am not one to headshoot at 600yrds with a latest in fashion super custom wildcat. I am after meat

Agree with Mungo it’s all about context... pic attached was a recent buck. He was taken right at last light & had been giving me the slip for days...Hillar all the way just inside 200yrds. Dropped on the spot with my clearly underpowered 243

Don’t worry I didn’t drive home like that just a hurried extraction

 

[Shootgun]

Everything inside 100 meters, if animal unaware, head or neck shot.
My stalking is 70% thick woodland, so that's saving me looking for them in the brush.

 

[finnbear270]

Whatever looks right on the moment.

 

[finnbear270]

Head / neck / chest / shoulder pin.

 

[Rasputin]

Always remember the advice a very experienced stalker gave me on shooting reds. High shoulder drop them on the spot or they could run off and you be left with a huge drag. First time I shot a red on my own didn’t heed that advice damn thing tan 150 yards into the very rough clearfell. After 45 minutes trying to get it out swore never to do it again and haven’t.

 

[DavyG]

Shot placement. 10 yards from a road, path or lane way.
DG

 

[User00025]

£2 says this degenerates into another head shooting hand bag battle...

The scent of Florabundae is getting stronger.

 

[muddy42]

Whatever looks right on the moment.

Agreed. It depends on the deer's orientation, uphill/downhill, position of the feet or head. The Best Practice Guides have some images that help. I would say that people tend to get drawn to the middle of the deer and shoot to far back or too low.

 

[Highfield]

Everything inside 100 meters, if animal unaware, head or neck shot.
My stalking is 70% thick woodland, so that's saving me looking for them in the brush.

just over an hour...not bad

 

[Sika-Hunter]

 

[angusb1]

I’ve written extensively on here about the hilar zone. Do some searches with “shot placement” and “hilar zone”. Lots of pictures, diagrams videos and so on. And arguments, of course.

I disagree with Foster on the “European tradition of aiming at the centre of the shoulder”.

The European tradition has been in my experience the classic “meat saver” shot, avoiding the shoulder altogether - in the “crease” just behind the foreleg, hoping to directly hit the heart whilst avoiding saleable musculature. This shot will usually result in a runner, until blood pressure reduces to the point the animal can no longer function.

The key thing about the hilar shot, is that is a more bankable and potentially effective shot if the animal is quartering away or towards. It is a simple matter of imagining the bullet’s trajectory across the chest cavity, at the right height. With an expanding fragmenting bullet, the diagonal rather than perpendicular trajectory collects a lot more of the vitals. It is also more likely to avoid the humerus leg bone, which can easily deflect a bullet away from the hilar zone. A perpendicular (i.e. broadside) shot that is slightly off is more likely to result in a runner.

The key thing to remember - this is where Foster should be updating his material (he is, to publish on the Norma website) - is to get your head around what the hilar zone actually represents medically. Once the “zone” is understood in terms of it’s multiple functions - breathing, arteries, blood flow, lungs, heart, autonomic CNS, and what the autonomic CNS actually controls (and how it links to the brain), it’s a lot easier to get the confidence to target it.

Hold a hilar zone in your hands and have a rummage around enough times, and you’ll soon know exactly where it is, and how to destroy it with one bang flop shot. Doesn’t need a bazooka, I shoot deer regularly in the hilar with a .223 or .243 and off they go, rolling down the hill.

View attachment 184258

Handy picture, thanks

 

[camodog]

Shot placement. 10 yards from a road, path or lane way.
DG

'A' road, 'B' road or unclassified .....just askin' ?

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Shot placement. 10 yards from a road, path or lane way.
DG

And within 50 yards from your truck as well, if possible.
And no more than 10 Min to get home for coffee/tea/dinner or a beer!

 

[stubear]

I’ve written extensively on here about the hilar zone. Do some searches with “shot placement” and “hilar zone”. Lots of pictures, diagrams videos and so on. And arguments, of course.

I disagree with Foster on the “European tradition of aiming at the centre of the shoulder”.

The European tradition has been in my experience the classic “meat saver” shot, avoiding the shoulder altogether - in the “crease” just behind the foreleg, hoping to directly hit the heart whilst avoiding saleable musculature. This shot will usually result in a runner, until blood pressure reduces to the point the animal can no longer function.

The key thing about the hilar shot, is that is a more bankable and potentially effective shot if the animal is quartering away or towards. It is a simple matter of imagining the bullet’s trajectory across the chest cavity, at the right height. With an expanding fragmenting bullet, the diagonal rather than perpendicular trajectory collects a lot more of the vitals. It is also more likely to avoid the humerus leg bone, which can easily deflect a bullet away from the hilar zone. A perpendicular (i.e. broadside) shot that is slightly off is more likely to result in a runner.

The key thing to remember - this is where Foster should be updating his material (he is, to publish on the Norma website) - is to get your head around what the hilar zone actually represents medically. Once the “zone” is understood in terms of it’s multiple functions - breathing, arteries, blood flow, lungs, heart, autonomic CNS, and what the autonomic CNS actually controls (and how it links to the brain), it’s a lot easier to get the confidence to target it.

Hold a hilar zone in your hands and have a rummage around enough times, and you’ll soon know exactly where it is, and how to destroy it with one bang flop shot. Doesn’t need a bazooka, I shoot deer regularly in the hilar with a .223 or .243 and off they go, rolling down the hill.

View attachment 184258

Completely agree with this - halfway up the body and in line with the front leg on a boradside deer is just the ticket. If you hit them there you might lose a bit of venison but they dont run, they just drop on the spot and they'll drop with any deer legal cartridge out there.

Which one you use is up to you of course

Then all you need to do is bring your shot "forward" or "backwards" on the skin of the animal if its quartering relative to your position so you still hit that same spot.