Deer Wars NZ

[Ubique52]

Just finished an excellent 9 part series on Spotify. Charts New Zealand’s Deer War from the 1930s to 1990s and interviews some of the key characters involved. Some truly wild stuff that you wouldn’t get away with today.




The series gave me a lot to think about to be fair. The UK and NZ are similar in size but NZ is much less densely populated and has huge tracts of public land. When their deer population got to two million they had no closed season and a small army of professional hunters knocking them over, didn’t make a dent on the numbers.

In the end they resorted to closing laying the ground with poisons and heli hunting to bring the numbers down. Due to the nature of land ownership and population density in tho UK I can’t see these methods ever taking off.

Might be an argument for Lynx perhaps

Anyway an interesting listen. Certainly made me wish I could go back in time and hunt in shorts with a 303.

 

[Bonzo dog]

I watched the TV series when I was nz many year ago, focusing on choppers, aerial venison recovery and live capture. With the legend that was Tim Wallis (RIP) Fascinating watch and a good example of kiwi ingenuity, solving a problem they were facing.

 

[Ubique52]

Was certainly ingenious

Jumping from a moving helicopter to rugby tackle a red stag

 

[ikapdunn]

Thanks for this!

 

[Wmjas]

One of the high country stations I worked on had a heli company at the bottom of the drive run by the owner’s brother. We got talking and I asked him if they’d ever given the live capture thing a go. He said yes they’d both had a couple one night and talked at length about he best place and method to give it a try. He proceeded to tell me that with the hangover truly in place the following morning they forgot the most important aspect…you have to tire the deer out before you jump not after!

 

[NullMac]

Might be an argument for Lynx perhaps

The daily meat requirement of a lynx is 1.1kg to 2kg per day. Lets say 2kg.

How many deer do you want killed every year * average weight / 2 = number of lynx required. So at a very rough guess it would kill 25 deer per year (if you believe it can take a red hind). Let's say we kill 300,000 deer every year. So we need 10,000 + lynx a year. Where would you like your 10,000 lynx??

And of course in the same way Buzzards only eat worms, the left leaning progressive lynx sub species that we introduce will not eat any of the easier to catch prey species like sheep, dog, cats etc.

Same old...

 

[Ubique52]

The daily meat requirement of a lynx is 1.1kg to 2kg per day. Lets say 2kg.

How many deer do you want killed every year * average weight / 2 = number of lynx required. So at a very rough guess it would kill 25 deer per year (if you believe it can take a red hind). Let's say we kill 300,000 deer every year. So we need 10,000 + lynx a year. Where would you like your 10,000 lynx??

And of course in the same way Buzzards only eat worms, the left leaning progressive lynx sub species that we introduce will not eat any of the easier to catch prey species like sheep, dog, cats etc.

Same old...

Personally I would like to see reasonable numbers of indigenous charismatic megafuna in areas where they could sustain themselves.

I’m not suggesting they or any other species would solve the “problem” we’re having with deer in it’s entirety. They might be an interesting tool to have in the box though.

I’m not sure animals have political or social views either if I’m honest.

 

[Ubique52]

One of the high country stations I worked on had a heli company at the bottom of the drive run by the owner’s brother. We got talking and I asked him if they’d ever given the live capture thing a go. He said yes they’d both had a couple one night and talked at length about he best place and method to give it a try. He proceeded to tell me that with the hangover truly in place the following morning they forgot the most important aspect…you have to tire the deer out before you jump not after!

Fighting deer for a living……..

Not for me but I understand the money was good. Fair play to him.

 

[User00040]

Personally I would like to see reasonable numbers of indigenous charismatic megafuna in areas where they could sustain themselves.

Which is zero.

 

[maximus otter]

Might be an argument for Lynx perhaps

"No, shooting is cruel! Let's have them torn apart, while still alive, by wild carnivores! I can't talk any longer, I'm off to an anti-foxhunting demo..."



maximus otter

 

[Ubique52]

Which is zero.

Could be, I’m no expert on the matter. For all I know the reintroduced populations on the continent are hand fed. Would be nice to see them on our landscape though.

"No, shooting is cruel! Let's have them torn apart, while still alive, by wild carnivores! I can't talk any longer, I'm off to an anti-foxhunting demo..."



maximus otter

No doubt there’s lunatics that think like that. Personally I think the average person is slightly more nuanced than that.

 

[User00040]

Would be nice to see them on our landscape though.

Would be nice to have a dinosaur safari...

 

[Ubique52]

Would be nice to have a dinosaur safari...

A few T rex would certainly bring the deer numbers down.

 

[John Gryphon]

The worst part of it all is/was the dropping of massive amounts of 1080 baits by air. I believe that they are still active with this method.

 

[User00040]

The worst part of it all is/was the dropping of massive amounts of 1080 baits by air. I believe that they are still active with this method.

They target possums too, if shooting is not doing a good enough job, then other methods need to be used.

UK needs to get some chopper boys in from NZ/SA, Southern Hemisphere lads would get the job done quick and clean.

 

[Ubique52]

The worst part of it all is/was the dropping of massive amounts of 1080 baits by air. I believe that they are still active with this method.

Sounds like nasty stuff

The DOC over there recommends not walking your dog in 1080 areas up to 8 months post drop.

 

[Ubique52]

They target possums too, if shooting is not doing a good enough job, then other methods need to be used.

UK needs to get some chopper boys in from NZ/SA, Southern Hemisphere lads would get the job done quick and clean.

Would certainly work up here if the landowners agreed.

Muntjac Heli culling down the road might prove tricky but should still be fine sport nonetheless.

 

[RescueMe0007]

A few T rex would certainly bring the deer numbers down.

I doubt it. They'd never catch the crafty, little whroes! Might be good for a few hunt saboteurs or hill walkers (of any stripe).

 

[Ubique52]

I doubt it. They'd never catch the crafty, little whroes! Might be good for a few hunt saboteurs or hill walkers (of any stripe).

I like your thinking

If they eat ecologist as well then we’ve solved the deer problem.

Nobody to complain about stalking
Nobody in bright coats interrupting stalking
No ecologists to count the deer

Winner winner chicken dinner

 

[John Gryphon]

The NZ deer history is available in D.B. Banwell`s books.
I was fortunate enough back in (circa) 1980 to purchase the trilogy of
Red Stags Of The Rakaia.
Highland Stags of Otago
and best of all Wapiti In NZ a book that documents how they were liberated on the South Island and then left to their own in one of the most rugged places on the planet. No licences to hunt them were issued for 20 or 25 years. The growth of their antlers was farkin unreal and they had never seen any humans in that time except for blokes on a fishing boat offshore.
The Red Deer continued their relentless march from the north and started to hybridise with the Wapiti and that then ****ed the purity of the original herd.
The NZ deer have been mismanaged by many NZ governments much to the chagrin of the Deerstalkers Clubs.
My favourite from the NZ wapiti book by Banwell below,the bare skull minus lower jaw weighed 48LBS and he left it in the bush for two years until he could go back and retrieve it......and there are those that whinge about carrying a roebuck ha ha.