foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Fantastic post mate and food for thought .
Democratising Deer Stalking?
- Thread starter User00040
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Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Don't forget salmon either, it was only the threat of open ended EU fines that persuaded the Nationalistas to stop issuing netting concessions for the wild fish, which brings little to them when compared to the 'fake plastic fish' which destroy the marine ecosystems, against the expense of everyone, whilst the profits are privately held.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
The Scottish approach to deer for me has always been a strange one .They pay for night contractors to cull to protect trees but won’t let paying guests use thermal which is the most singular modern method for culling deer numbers .So on the one hand deer are vermin but if you pay ,apparently they are not ,lol.
Unfortunately with the salmon I have a rather desperate feeling that it has already gone too far. ScotGov's continued defence of, and continued propagandist stance on, open cage salmon farming, despite the scientific evidence showing that it is environmentally indefensible, is another thing that they should be held to account for. You could substitute the word "deer" for "salmon" in the post from @CarlW earlier and it would be every bit as accurate...
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Money talks 
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
The night contracts are paid for by the public, and for an organisation which cares not for the deer, nor even quantifies what benefit such an approach brings; paying guests are usually sporting guests on private areas where the deer are conserved rather than exploited, and as such they are accorded a fair chance, i.e. stalked using traditional means.
Both approaches and some in between are the 'Scottish' ones. One man's meat...
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Like I said vermin unless paid for .
When I started out nearly 40 years ago it wasn't easy . I done a few paid days , but the main way I got some stalking was to go knocking on doors and joining the local beating team and get to know the keepers . I found if you helped them out they in return helped you with a bit of shooting , and once people trust you doors start to open up. Best thing is not to give up and keep trying
East Coast Lifeboat
Well-Known Member
Mentorining.
Lots of intresting comments on this thread. Its clearly a challangeing Chicken and Egg situation for people entering stalking and trying to gain experince and competency.
Im RNLI lifeboat crew and have been for many years. At my station (Southwold Suffolk) we are currently in the process of recruiting new crew. It takes a lot of time, effort and commitment for new crew to gain the skills and competency to undertake the challanging and potentially dangerous life saving operations in the North Sea. A lot of new crew find it very intimerdating walking into the station to begin their long journey to become crew.
Its not easy trying to assimilate with a crew of blokes who all trust one another with their lives and who are willing to jump out of bed at 2 oclock on a stormy Jan morning and speed out of the harbour into a dark and dangerous North Sea to go the aid of those in peril. New crew are required to undertake considerable training both on station and at sea and well as in Poole RNLI college and master lots of new skills. All under the watchful eye of the crew!
We as excisting crew fully recorgnise that it not easy being newbie and work hard to help them devlope skills, competency, confidence. Not all make it. its not for every body and many newbies dont make it to operations. We treat all newbies with a great deal of respect weather they make the grade or not. Becuase without a constant intake of newbies to replace older retireing crew. Valuable skills and knowledge are lost forever.
My point is that for newbies entering stalking it can be equally challanging. One sucsessful route to gaining the acceptance of the wider stalking community. Is for those with the knowledge to share it with those wishing to learn via mentoring.
So if there are any experiecned stalkers out there who are willing to mentor a newbie and pass on their skills and knowlegde. Please drop me a line. I live in Southwold in Suffolk and have many years of firearms experience and would like to become a stalker.
Cheers
Chris - Full crew Southwold RNLI ILB Atlantic 85.
Lots of intresting comments on this thread. Its clearly a challangeing Chicken and Egg situation for people entering stalking and trying to gain experince and competency.
Im RNLI lifeboat crew and have been for many years. At my station (Southwold Suffolk) we are currently in the process of recruiting new crew. It takes a lot of time, effort and commitment for new crew to gain the skills and competency to undertake the challanging and potentially dangerous life saving operations in the North Sea. A lot of new crew find it very intimerdating walking into the station to begin their long journey to become crew.
Its not easy trying to assimilate with a crew of blokes who all trust one another with their lives and who are willing to jump out of bed at 2 oclock on a stormy Jan morning and speed out of the harbour into a dark and dangerous North Sea to go the aid of those in peril. New crew are required to undertake considerable training both on station and at sea and well as in Poole RNLI college and master lots of new skills. All under the watchful eye of the crew!
We as excisting crew fully recorgnise that it not easy being newbie and work hard to help them devlope skills, competency, confidence. Not all make it. its not for every body and many newbies dont make it to operations. We treat all newbies with a great deal of respect weather they make the grade or not. Becuase without a constant intake of newbies to replace older retireing crew. Valuable skills and knowledge are lost forever.
My point is that for newbies entering stalking it can be equally challanging. One sucsessful route to gaining the acceptance of the wider stalking community. Is for those with the knowledge to share it with those wishing to learn via mentoring.
So if there are any experiecned stalkers out there who are willing to mentor a newbie and pass on their skills and knowlegde. Please drop me a line. I live in Southwold in Suffolk and have many years of firearms experience and would like to become a stalker.
Cheers
Chris - Full crew Southwold RNLI ILB Atlantic 85.
Musketeer
Well-Known Member
Well done for being crew on a RNLI lifeboat and thank you for what you do. I worked closely with a crew when I was stationed in a coastal town in the police service.
It does bemuse me sometimes when people belittle newcomers, I do agree with what is being said but what are we actually calling a newcomer? Somebody who’s been shooting 20 years and then gets into deer stalking ? Or somebody who literally one day wakes up and decides they want to shoot a deer with no previous experience of country life at all?
They are two completely different things.
Don’t get me wrong though there is a lot of assholes out there that just want to pull the trigger and shouldn’t even be allowed a gun in my opinion,they have no respect for animals or the countryside. BUT we can’t tar everybody with the same brush.
I can honestly say in the last 20 years since I started shooting , field sports and fishing I’ve never met somebody who has no previous experience in the countryside stating that they are taking up deer stalking.
I’ve been stalking just over 3 years and as stated 90% of this is over my good friends farms controlling muntjac and the roe population. We select our animals and as stated on previous occasion i don’t end up shooting as it’s not the right animal etc.
We manage them for their own health as there was quite a few roe about, for harvesting the meat and as stated because I love stalking in general. I’ve controlled the vermin on this farm for 20 years which is why I’m allowed to manage the deer
I’ve done DSC1 and found it throughly interesting which wasn’t a surprise because I love the countryside and it’s flora and fauna.
It bemuses me when the odd few ‘professionals’ whinge about recreational stalkers. Which some may class me as
regardless of my fieldsports background.
They are two completely different things.
Don’t get me wrong though there is a lot of assholes out there that just want to pull the trigger and shouldn’t even be allowed a gun in my opinion,they have no respect for animals or the countryside. BUT we can’t tar everybody with the same brush.
I can honestly say in the last 20 years since I started shooting , field sports and fishing I’ve never met somebody who has no previous experience in the countryside stating that they are taking up deer stalking.
I’ve been stalking just over 3 years and as stated 90% of this is over my good friends farms controlling muntjac and the roe population. We select our animals and as stated on previous occasion i don’t end up shooting as it’s not the right animal etc.
We manage them for their own health as there was quite a few roe about, for harvesting the meat and as stated because I love stalking in general. I’ve controlled the vermin on this farm for 20 years which is why I’m allowed to manage the deer
I’ve done DSC1 and found it throughly interesting which wasn’t a surprise because I love the countryside and it’s flora and fauna.
It bemuses me when the odd few ‘professionals’ whinge about recreational stalkers. Which some may class me as
regardless of my fieldsports background.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Some people just born whingers mate no matter their luck .
When you say the Scottish approach, do you mean FLS.
If it is FLS can you give us something to work with here as I have never heard of FLS restricting the use of a Thermal in a recreational environment..
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
My mistake mate ,I thought thermal imaging was banned in Scotland for deer shooting .
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
What I’m about to say isn’t going to be popular with some I imagine but here goes.
Deer stalking is cheap in the UK compared to the continent - we need to accept that, if you don’t believe me price some up. From my experience continental hunters don’t seem to whine as much about cost or opportunities as you go in your eyes wide open in field sports.
The increase in popularity of stalking is fuelling the ever present sentiment of jealousy as everyone wants their ‘own bit of paradise’ but doesn’t necessarily have the means to pay the amount required - this is human nature and that is life.
If you take up golf you can pay big money, very similar to stalking prices depending on your choice; you can join a prestigious club/play St.Andrews (an old money estate) or, you can become a member and play the local courses/council run courses (syndicates/paid days).
The result is the same, you pay, you play your game and you enjoy your day out but when it boils down to it everyone wants to play the big courses but doesn’t want to, or can’t pay the fee - it’s all relative and the same in every leisure industry (lets leave out contracted cull teams etc).
‘Stalkers’ without ground are generally the most vocal and moan about not being able to get ground or having to pay a few hundred quid on a stalk/don’t want to pay syndicate fees but are happy to pay four figure sums for a rifle and the same for a scope which sits in the cabinet 364 days a year.
Maybe these people need to ask themselves why they needed to spend that amount of cash on a rifle/scope when they could get a cheap set up and use the difference to have some enjoyable stalking or indeed, as radical as it sounds, don’t buy one and use estate rifles (I can sense some blood vessels bursting with that one).
Everyone needs to accept that the amount of land in the U.K. is finite and the people wanting to use it, not just for stalking, is increasing and not everyone can get a piece of it.
I really don’t agree with or think that public land or municipal stalking would work in the U.K. and I’m not sure it would be popular with the population in general which would be the death knell to any suggestion.
Countries where public hunting happens tend to have different set ups and also different outlooks on the use of firearms and it is not without its problems or dangers either. I really don’t think the U.K. population or any government would agree to it in any case.
I’ve been lucky by putting in the work and shot a lot of deer for nothing, I have also had ground, lost ground, been priced out of ground or not been able to afford it in the first place and just accept that that’s life. I guess what I’m trying to say is if you don’t accept the ‘rules of the game’ you need to find a different hobby.
Deer stalking is cheap in the UK compared to the continent - we need to accept that, if you don’t believe me price some up. From my experience continental hunters don’t seem to whine as much about cost or opportunities as you go in your eyes wide open in field sports.
The increase in popularity of stalking is fuelling the ever present sentiment of jealousy as everyone wants their ‘own bit of paradise’ but doesn’t necessarily have the means to pay the amount required - this is human nature and that is life.
If you take up golf you can pay big money, very similar to stalking prices depending on your choice; you can join a prestigious club/play St.Andrews (an old money estate) or, you can become a member and play the local courses/council run courses (syndicates/paid days).
The result is the same, you pay, you play your game and you enjoy your day out but when it boils down to it everyone wants to play the big courses but doesn’t want to, or can’t pay the fee - it’s all relative and the same in every leisure industry (lets leave out contracted cull teams etc).
‘Stalkers’ without ground are generally the most vocal and moan about not being able to get ground or having to pay a few hundred quid on a stalk/don’t want to pay syndicate fees but are happy to pay four figure sums for a rifle and the same for a scope which sits in the cabinet 364 days a year.
Maybe these people need to ask themselves why they needed to spend that amount of cash on a rifle/scope when they could get a cheap set up and use the difference to have some enjoyable stalking or indeed, as radical as it sounds, don’t buy one and use estate rifles (I can sense some blood vessels bursting with that one).
Everyone needs to accept that the amount of land in the U.K. is finite and the people wanting to use it, not just for stalking, is increasing and not everyone can get a piece of it.
I really don’t agree with or think that public land or municipal stalking would work in the U.K. and I’m not sure it would be popular with the population in general which would be the death knell to any suggestion.
Countries where public hunting happens tend to have different set ups and also different outlooks on the use of firearms and it is not without its problems or dangers either. I really don’t think the U.K. population or any government would agree to it in any case.
I’ve been lucky by putting in the work and shot a lot of deer for nothing, I have also had ground, lost ground, been priced out of ground or not been able to afford it in the first place and just accept that that’s life. I guess what I’m trying to say is if you don’t accept the ‘rules of the game’ you need to find a different hobby.
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Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
I never quite understand why it is that people fill in a form for an FAC and then feel that they should, for some reason, automatically get some land to shoot over.
There is actually quite a lot to it and there are a lot of people wanting to do it.
Why should a land owner not be paid for something that by definition has a value (because you want to do it and someone else would also like to) - getting it for free is all very well but there will always be someone who will offer money for it, you might not lose the ground but as they say money talks and very few farmers actually care about the deer unless they are damaging crops.
I deal with lease holders a fair bit for work and shooting too many deer is rarely a problem - getting them to shoot deer tends to be harder. I quite appreciate that this isn’t the case everywhere.
Best outcome is that you develop a good name and something comes along. Other option is to join a syndicate (which is essentially paying for ground that someone once had for free probably) or pay for outings.
I don’t quite understand how public hunting works in other countries - who owns it? I was watching a YouTube video the other day and the lad had waited 20 years to get lucky to win a tag for a certain deer - that doesn’t seem all the great to me.
There is actually quite a lot to it and there are a lot of people wanting to do it.
Why should a land owner not be paid for something that by definition has a value (because you want to do it and someone else would also like to) - getting it for free is all very well but there will always be someone who will offer money for it, you might not lose the ground but as they say money talks and very few farmers actually care about the deer unless they are damaging crops.
I deal with lease holders a fair bit for work and shooting too many deer is rarely a problem - getting them to shoot deer tends to be harder. I quite appreciate that this isn’t the case everywhere.
Best outcome is that you develop a good name and something comes along. Other option is to join a syndicate (which is essentially paying for ground that someone once had for free probably) or pay for outings.
I don’t quite understand how public hunting works in other countries - who owns it? I was watching a YouTube video the other day and the lad had waited 20 years to get lucky to win a tag for a certain deer - that doesn’t seem all the great to me.
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Many of my American clients liked the fact that we had no bag limits other than self imposed ones, and the amount of
deer we had .
Had one client who shot a stag on each of her three days stalking with me she had been hunting for seven years in the
states and had yet to connect with a deer there.
deer we had .
Had one client who shot a stag on each of her three days stalking with me she had been hunting for seven years in the
states and had yet to connect with a deer there.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Hunted often enough in the USA and never connected deer on public land ever. On a private ranch in NM I shot my first antelope in 1993 cost me $300 + $300 extra for the mount.
My take on guided stalks in the UK seems to be someone gets the shooting rights to control the deer on land then seeks out paying clients to come and do the work for him while he tags along to make it all seem special. I suppose it is a way of adding to the income potential on top of just shooting them oneself & selling the meat into the game dealers. Turns it from a hobby into a job.
My take on guided stalks in the UK seems to be someone gets the shooting rights to control the deer on land then seeks out paying clients to come and do the work for him while he tags along to make it all seem special. I suppose it is a way of adding to the income potential on top of just shooting them oneself & selling the meat into the game dealers. Turns it from a hobby into a job.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Thankfully there are many farmers North and South who buck the trend and value the overall work some stalkers do all year round on the vermin without a penny ever crossing hands and long may that be the case .Ive gone to help cows calving ,pulled lambs out ,righted god knows how many sheep and shot fallen stock when needed and farmers respect that .People have tried to buy the stalking ,less said about that the better, but farmers haven't budged .
I have lost ground through unforeseen cases but not through greed on the farmers part .
How many lease holders offer their services on the vermin or give the landowner a second thought .
Hope this dosnt degenerate as it’s a good thread .
I have lost ground through unforeseen cases but not through greed on the farmers part .
How many lease holders offer their services on the vermin or give the landowner a second thought .
Hope this dosnt degenerate as it’s a good thread .
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