Derbyshire Police Rural Crime Team have seized approximately 30 firearms

[bobthedug]

I was told by a FEO that seized firearms remain the property of the owner and can be transferred to a RFD for sale.

They do indeed remain the property of the owner but the FEO is wrong regarding the transferring to an RFD for sale. There would be circumstances where that could indeed happen, but it would depend on the initial reason for seizure.
If they are seized due to alleged criminality, the outcome of the court case (if any) would determine what happened to them.

 

[TH4]

Indeed like an internal memo not to take or share pictures of victims of crime.

You should know a great many police officers do not think they have to live by the same rules the rest of us do.

 

[Highfield]

I imagine someone in Derbyshire Police with some time on their hands (perhaps doing light duties due to an injury or something) has been given the job of trawling through firearms certificate holders and matching them against incidents which they have had some involvement in and come up with a list. They've then made a "hit list" of folk who have displayed actions that might call their suitability into question, or have suffered from a mental condition and then done the rounds.

However, most forces automatically do this whenever you come to police notice. If, for example you get arrested for something or are engaged in some sort of disorder, domestic incident, drink driving or whatever, as a matter of course, it is flagged and a decision is made concerning your suitability to possess firearms.

I can only surmise that Derbyshire hasn't been doing this, they've realised this (or had it pointed out) and have mounted an operation to rectify this. So whilst it's perhaps normal to think Derbyshire are getting tough with certificate holders, the real worry might well be that they've been allowing people to have guns who simply aren't suitable. So not quite sure why Derbyshire are boasting about this. Polishing a t*rd perhaps.

yeah this and the fact that they have probebly issued a few facs that when reveiwed after the plymoth shootings have found to be dodgy

 

[long_range_rob]

There is a renewed initiative to ensure people with issues, like the Plymouth chap and the puppy farm chap, are wheedled out of the FAC/SGC herd. I don’t think it’s such a bad thing assuming this power is not abused and is employed on a level basis across the UK

 

[Liveonce]

………..is employed on a level basis across the UK

No guarantee of that when it comes to firearm licencing?

 

[I. Farticus]

Probably a nod to the General Public that they're watching us like hawks. Our argument is to go find the illegal firearms, but we're the easy prey

 

[Jeff8861]

If you are a certificate holder and you come to the attention of the authorities licensing are contacted. They will assess the situation conduct primarily enquiries and if required they will ask to voluntary surrender or if the situation is serious you will be revoked. If you don't surrender voluntary you will be revoked, this is during office hours. If you fall foul of the law after office hours you probably be revoked.
So in a nutshell don't fu.. up.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Following on from mine above, actually it says 'The issuing of a firearms certificate is a privilege not a right' which I suppose is true. Not everyone has the right to issue a Firearms Certificate - just the Chief Officer of Police.
I wonder whether he thinks it a privilege. Certainly it is his duty!

I've always argued that having an FAC is neither a privilege or a right, but rather a "conditional right"
If you meet the conditions laid down in the Firearms Act then you have a right to receive an FAC.
The chief of Police does not have a choice
The Act says that the if the applicant meets the conditions, the chief of police SHALL issue an FAC

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Stalker62]

You should know a great many police officers do not think they have to live by the same rules the rest of us do.

Indeed there are some.

Those that behave as such, deserve all the law allows. Those that behave as such, deserve the condemnation of their colleagues and the public they swore to serve. They deserve everything that they get and I have I no sympathy with any one of them.

It was my privilege, to spend two postings in a thirty year career, identifying, prosecuting and convicting those Police Officers who had no business being Police Officers.

In my "real world" experience, there was not "a great many of them": however, the harm they cause and the damage to the perception and reputation of the Police, is out of all proportion to their numbers and is not reflective of the vast majority of decent Officers.

 

[I. Farticus]

It was my privilege, to spend two postings in a thirty year career, identifying, prosecuting and convicting those Police Officers who had no business being Police Officers.

"Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey!"

 

[finnbear270]

It's just a reminder to all and sundry that they are willing to do their duty if we slip sideways from the straight and narrow path we tread.
Also, our daily driving habits in a private vehicle can, if shown to be unreasonable, result in loss of HGV categories.

 

[TH4]

Indeed there are some.

Those that behave as such, deserve all the law allows. Those that behave as such, deserve the condemnation of their colleagues and the public they swore to serve. They deserve everything that they get and I have I no sympathy with any one of them.

It was my privilege, to spend two postings in a thirty year career, identifying, prosecuting and convicting those Police Officers who had no business being Police Officers.

In my "real world" experience, there was not "a great many of them": however, the harm they cause and the damage to the perception and reputation of the Police, is out of all proportion to their numbers and is not reflective of the vast majority of decent Officers.

Everyone has their opinion and unfortunately some of yours are not the same as mine. The standard of recruit to the police service has in my opinion got lower and lower and the cases of police officers being caught doing wrong is getting higher and higher. We only see the tip of the iceberg so how many wronguns are there actually out there. Even the police services own polls have stated that public confidence in them is at an all time low. I had a friend who was firearms licensing manager who went home after shooting and left his shotgun in the conservatory to dry and went for a kip. When he came down later it had been stolen. Did he lose his license? No of course not as allways one rule for them and one for us.

 

[Stalker62]

Everyone has their opinion and unfortunately some of yours are not the same as mine.

I am prepared to admit failings within the Police. I do not tar all Police with the failings of a minority. I am not (and never have) pushed an "agenda".
It is OK to not have the same views on everything - that is what makes humanity so dreadful/wonderful.

The standard of recruit to the police service has in my opinion got lower and lower and the cases of police officers being caught doing wrong is getting higher and higher.

I think the first half of your sentence is correct - this is (in my view) not confined to the Police. I draw comfort (as should you) from the second half of your statement.

We only see the tip of the iceberg so how many wronguns are there actually out there.

We can only every see what is there to be seen. Your question is unanswerable.

Even the police services own polls have stated that public confidence in them is at an all time low.

It has been the most appalling year for public confidence in the Police - who still rate highly across the board when compared to other professions.

This is not to excuse what has happened. Even in my most paranoid nightmares, could I have envisaged the offences that have been committed this past year or so, by serving Police Officers. All of them were brought to book by other Police Officers. Because Police Officers are people, some will go on to commit offences - I pray to the Gods, that we have seen the worse of it. I am not naive enough to hope that that is true. I damn those who do. I do not seek to score points against the vast majority of those Police Officers who don't.

I had a friend who was firearms licensing manager who went home after shooting and left his shotgun in the conservatory to dry and went for a kip. When he came down later it had been stolen. Did he lose his license? No of course not as allways one rule for them and one for us.

You quote of matters over which I have no knowledge and of which yours is second-hand.

 

[Bowland blades]

I imagine someone in Derbyshire Police with some time on their hands (perhaps doing light duties due to an injury or something) has been given the job of trawling through firearms certificate holders and matching them against incidents which they have had some involvement in and come up with a list. They've then made a "hit list" of folk who have displayed actions that might call their suitability into question, or have suffered from a mental condition and then done the rounds.

However, most forces automatically do this whenever you come to police notice. If, for example you get arrested for something or are engaged in some sort of disorder, domestic incident, drink driving or whatever, as a matter of course, it is flagged and a decision is made concerning your suitability to possess firearms.

I can only surmise that Derbyshire hasn't been doing this, they've realised this (or had it pointed out) and have mounted an operation to rectify this. So whilst it's perhaps normal to think Derbyshire are getting tough with certificate holders, the real worry might well be that they've been allowing people to have guns who simply aren't suitable. So not quite sure why Derbyshire are boasting about this. Polishing a t*rd perhaps.

I have real concerns about folks not seeking help early enough because they fear loosing thier shooting . We have lost people to suicide by gun locally on a number of occasions. I really feel it might stop someone seeking help from the medical professionals knowing it likely they loose thier shooting
There has to be something better like a 6 month suspension pending another examination?

 

[Pedro]

I have real concerns about folks not seeking help early enough because they fear loosing thier shooting . We have lost people to suicide by gun locally on a number of occasions. I really feel it might stop someone seeking help from the medical professionals knowing it likely they loose thier shooting
There has to be something better like a 6 month suspension pending another examination?

I'm pretty sure it must happen. Perhaps if the authorities had some sort of protocol (which they might do, but doubt it) to apply to someone, say who has been diagnosed with depression and made that public knowledge, that might help. But I fear the protocol is basically if you are diagnosed with a relevant condition, it's off with your guns and it's up to you to prove it's a thing of the past and not going to recur. And good luck with that.

 

[MAH]

not sure if this is a new 'drive' to clamp down on FAC holders.

I would like to think that assessing "suitability" is a well established and ongoing process. (Sadley it's not always prevented tragedy).

For example, if a FAC/SG holder is convicted of serious driving offence, or found drunk and disorderly, or any number of other events that indicate a concern about an individual's suitability, then I'd expect this process to start.

I notice there is a clear distinction between the steps of "seizure" and "revoke". And am reassured by the statement of "evidence" based action.

The only new bit in this for me is the Facebook post. Which, given the Portsmouth tragedy, is probably aimed at the public.

I would argue that right minded people have nothing to worry about this post.
Whereas, if an individual's lifestyle skates on the edge legality, then this is a "heads up" message to become a better citizen.

M.

 

[C h r i s]

I came into the world of civilian rifle shooting via target shooting clubs, so for quite a while I naively thought that 99.9% of FAC holders were cleaner than clean, as anyone that has had to endure the process of rigorous background checks plus the tortuous approval by so called 'respected club officials' wouldn't want to do anything to put all that effort in jeopardy. Of course over the years I've subsequently realised how wrong I was and had the misfortune to come across a few who do have a very different outlook on the use of firearms, still not sure that Facebook warnings/threats would make any difference to those people.

 

[MAH]

I really feel it might stop someone seeking help from the medical professionals knowing it likely they loose thier shooting

I agree this is an area of concern, but it's not limited to mental health and FAC.
I know people who have died from cancer, primarily because they didn't go to the GP when the symptoms started. Ditto, those who chose not to have the Covid inoculation. It may or may not catch up with them.

Back to FAC... and to add some balance. Ive had a cert for over 40 years. About 20 years ago, I was being put under intense and unreasonable pressure at work.
A long story short, I went to my GP told him the details. He agreed my employer was baiving unreasonably, he signed me off work for a while and the sick note read " work related stress ".

This prompted senior people in the company to look at the root cause and resolve it.

I've listed this event on every renewal since.
The 1st time resulted in a longer than usual chat with the FEO whilst he explored the events and my reactions. Ditto more recently when a new FEO took over.

My guess is there will be a scale of concern. And a big part of what will be considered is how an individual reacts to stressful situations.

FWIW: My key message is "don't delay going to see your GP.", for anything.

Hope this helps.
M

 

[TH4]

I am prepared to admit failings within the Police. I do not tar all Police with the failings of a minority. I am not (and never have) pushed an "agenda".
It is OK to not have the same views on everything - that is what makes humanity so dreadful/wonderful.

I think the first half of your sentence is correct - this is (in my view) not confined to the Police. I draw comfort (as should you) from the second half of your statement.

We can only every see what is there to be seen. Your question is unanswerable.

It has been the most appalling year for public confidence in the Police - who still rate highly across the board when compared to other professions.

This is not to excuse what has happened. Even in my most paranoid nightmares, could I have envisaged the offences that have been committed this past year or so, by serving Police Officers. All of them were brought to book by other Police Officers. Because Police Officers are people, some will go on to commit offences - I pray to the Gods, that we have seen the worse of it. I am not naive enough to hope that that is true. I damn those who do. I do not seek to score points against the vast majority of those Police Officers who don't.

You quote of matters over which I have no knowledge and of which yours is second-hand.

Second hand as in the officer himself told me. With all due respect our views on the police service will never be the same. Yours because you were in the job, mine because I have been on the reieving end of their corrupt practices. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Stalker62]

Second hand as in the officer himself told me.

Which is the definition of "second-hand".

With all due respect our views on the police service will never be the same.

I think the difference is you hold negative views about the Police - I hold negative views about some Police Officers.

Yours because you were in the job, mine because I have been on the reieving end of their corrupt practices.

Whilst it is true that I was in the Job, I was also a Medic and an Engineer - my jobs never defined my views about folk.

If it is true that you have been subjected to corrupt practices by Police Officers then I am sorry.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Agreed. If you ever get to Bisley, I will buy you a coffee and you can have a proper vent.