Digital Scopes and Thermal for Deer Stalking

[Essexsussex]

I did think about QR mounts and swapping about but I think I’d have a confidence issue even if proven to go back perfectly. Also then you have no excuse to have another rifle (or two).

thats the way im going digital alpex with rusan qr mounts backed up by a zeiss also in qr mounts , my other rifle just has a glass scope

 

[Tulloch]

After wanting to go out and finding a dead digital scope (something charging related - possibly user error) I’ll never not have a rifle with a traditional scope on alongside the rifle with digital. They take a long time to charge and if integral batteries (or other malfunction) it’s game over.

Most scopes now are 18650 batteries non proprietary and cheap its getting better but am with you on that too

 

[tarponhead]

I am with @Norfolk Deer Search. If you can’t find shootable deer with the naked eye, or a decent pair of binoculars you are either

1) blind
2) lacking the skills and knowledge to find deer
3) too impatient to find deer

If its too dark to see a deer with good glass its too dark to take a safe shot.

It takes time to learn how to spot wildlife. It’s a skill that you need to learn. With a digital optic you will never learn this essential skill.

It takes time a practice. Best is just to be patient and from one spot pick apart the landscape in front of you. Don’t look for deer, look for the flick of an ear or a tail. If you can’t see anything wait a five minutes and then scan again. Chances are deer will have moved.

And then move and repeat.

Always be on the lookout for sign of deer - hoof prints, trails, lying up spots,rubbings etc. Put these in the memory bank. They tell you where deer like to be. Next time look in these spots before you blunder into them.

If you don’t have your own ground, there are plenty of publicly accessible nature reserves etc etc. just take a pair of binoculars and go catch and release stalking.

Digital Optics Manufacturers are spending a huge amount of money on promoting their products. You can easily send £2 or £3,000 on digital kit that will be out of date and obsolete with a few weeks.

£3,000 at £100 an outing buys an awful lot of guided stalking where you will learn far more than any digital optic will teach you.

Like any sport, you can buy tools and learn to use them and then buy what makes you happy. The quarry doesn’t care or react any differently. You just need the right tools for the job. Which is why I have reduced my fishing rods to only 50….

 

[Essexsussex]

Most scopes now are 18650 batteries non proprietary and cheap its getting better but am with you on that too

I have 2 ATN x sight which were extremely cheap and work very well for what they cost, but don’t benefit from an external battery. I guess you can have other white outs as well so to be prepared I think I’ll always have a spare rifle with an 8x56 on it. Why not they cost pennies these days!

 

[Essexsussex]

Like any sport, you can buy tools and learn to use them and then buy what makes you happy. The quarry doesn’t care or react any differently. You just need the right tools for the job. Which is why I have reduced my fishing rods to only 50….

Can you please give me a call when you reduce it to 30

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Like any sport, you can buy tools and learn to use them and then buy what makes you happy. The quarry doesn’t care or react any differently. You just need the right tools for the job. Which is why I have reduced my fishing rods to only 50….

You would like me with carp gear

 

[Essexsussex]

You would like me with carp gear

That’s not accounting for spares for each time the kids somehow manage to chuck a rod and reel over the side of the boat…

 

[Chris Richardson]

I did think about QR mounts and swapping about but I think I’d have a confidence issue even if proven to go back perfectly. Also then you have no excuse to have another rifle (or two).

the rusan mounts have pretty good reviews i guess time will tell ....

 

[tarponhead]

Can you please give me a call when you reduce it to 30

30 would be the dead cat bounce - I’d be on my way back up again…Thankfully I have less reels, but only because even I have limits to my shame.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I am with @Norfolk Deer Search. If you can’t find shootable deer with the naked eye, or a decent pair of binoculars you are either

1) blind
2) lacking the skills and knowledge to find deer
3) too impatient to find deer

If its too dark to see a deer with good glass its too dark to take a safe shot.

It takes time to learn how to spot wildlife. It’s a skill that you need to learn. With a digital optic you will never learn this essential skill.

It takes time a practice. Best is just to be patient and from one spot pick apart the landscape in front of you. Don’t look for deer, look for the flick of an ear or a tail. If you can’t see anything wait a five minutes and then scan again. Chances are deer will have moved.

And then move and repeat.

Always be on the lookout for sign of deer - hoof prints, trails, lying up spots,rubbings etc. Put these in the memory bank. They tell you where deer like to be. Next time look in these spots before you blunder into them.

If you don’t have your own ground, there are plenty of publicly accessible nature reserves etc etc. just take a pair of binoculars and go catch and release stalking.

Digital Optics Manufacturers are spending a huge amount of money on promoting their products. You can easily send £2 or £3,000 on digital kit that will be out of date and obsolete with a few weeks.

£3,000 at £100 an outing buys an awful lot of guided stalking where you will learn far more than any digital optic will teach you.

In what way can it ever be too dark to take a shot. What inherently makes the same shot safe at midday and dangerous at midnight?

Like it or not, shooting at night has its place and using night vision and / or thermal is actually more effective and I would say humane than a torch because it’s essentially the same as stalking during the day. It’s not about finding shootable deer, it’s about shooting more and extending the available time into the time where deer actually move around more is sensible in my opinion. You don’t necessarily lose the stalking aspect, it’s not that easy and you still have to know what you are doing - it’s basically the same skill set but with slightly different challenges.

Personally I quite like thermal to spot and the night vision to shoot because it does allow a little more identification of beasts and obstructions (it’s also cheaper which appeals)

 

[sauer]

In what way can it ever be too dark to take a shot. What inherently makes the same shot safe at midday and dangerous at midnight?

Extraction...

Paul

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Extraction...

Paul

Extraction would be essentially the same but by torch light rather than daylight and when you shoot something last legal light then you are usually dragging it home in the dark anyway. I wouldn’t say it’s dangerous.

 

[Heym SR20]

Extraction would be essentially the same but by torch light rather than daylight and when you shoot something last legal light then you are usually dragging it home in the dark anyway. I wouldn’t say it’s dangerous.

You are also forgetting the legalities of shooting at midnight. Legal shooting time is one hour before sunrise and one after sunset.

Even in the very far North of Scotland shooting deer at midnight is illegal. On 21st June - the longest day at Dunbeath Head Sunrise is at 04.06 and sunset at 22.25.

Nature Scot do issue night shooting licenses, but they are very specific to particular pieces of land and particular individuals shooting on that land. Just because you have a night license for one forestry block doesn’t mean that this transfers to others.

Shooting in the dark with no natural light makes it more challenging to ensure safe backdrops, graloching, extraction etc. etc.

You field of view is whatever is with the beam of your torch or that of your digital optic. It is very much narrower and shorter than your field of view during daylight with your natural light. That is what makes shooting at night inherently more dangerous that during the day.

In the same way driving in the dark is much more dangerous than driving in daylight.

If you don’t think it is any more dangerous you really should be holding a night shooting licence.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

You are also forgetting the legalities of shooting at midnight. Legal shooting time is one hour before sunrise and one after sunset.

Even in the very far North of Scotland shooting deer at midnight is illegal. On 21st June - the longest day at Dunbeath Head Sunrise is at 04.06 and sunset at 22.25.

Nature Scot do issue night shooting licenses, but they are very specific to particular pieces of land and particular individuals shooting on that land. Just because you have a night license for one forestry block doesn’t mean that this transfers to others.

Shooting in the dark with no natural light makes it more challenging to ensure safe backdrops, graloching, extraction etc. etc.

You field of view is whatever is with the beam of your torch or that of your digital optic. It is very much narrower and shorter than your field of view during daylight with your natural light. That is what makes shooting at night inherently more dangerous that during the day.

In the same way driving in the dark is much more dangerous than driving in daylight.

If you don’t think it is any more dangerous you really should be holding a night shooting licence.

I am well aware of the rules surrounding shooting at night and assumed that we are all grown up enough to not require it spelled out when to comes to deer. Would probably blow you mind to know I sometimes also use a .22-250.

When you are shooting at night, these days (assuming thermal spotter) I would argue that in fact you are safer then even binoculars because they illuminate everything living.

I’m sorry but I still have trouble with the dangerous part, you should still know the ground and you can still see it with thermal. If you aren’t confident don’t play the game.

 

[sauer]

Extraction can be... way more dangerous at night than daylight ...torch light creates its own shadows and trying to navigate likes of clearfell lot more awkward at night and more risk to ankles and legs....
Quads....dragging out a beast in dark in unmanaged Heather for example trying to see the holes / dips ....again isnt the same as daylight and torchlight again can create its own. Shadows / issues ..
Not saying can't be done just as with daylight that's when work starts but you need yer wits about you

Paul

 

[Ratel]

Never thought I would, but I've chucked a Pulsar digital day/night scope on the 22/250. It's great for the first/last bit of light as that's when Charles James seems to be on the move in my area. Haven't tried it on deer yet as being a dinosaur as well as seeing all the Fallow in daylight, I prefer to use 8x56 glass for clarity.

 

[Chris Richardson]

In winter especially 90 % of the time in evenings I’m extracting and gralloching does by torchlight just par for the course really

 

[Tikka 270]

In what way can it ever be too dark to take a shot. What inherently makes the same shot safe at midday and dangerous at midnight?

Like it or not, shooting at night has its place and using night vision and / or thermal is actually more effective and I would say humane than a torch because it’s essentially the same as stalking during the day. It’s not about finding shootable deer, it’s about shooting more and extending the available time into the time where deer actually move around more is sensible in my opinion. You don’t necessarily lose the stalking aspect, it’s not that easy and you still have to know what you are doing - it’s basically the same skill set but with slightly different challenges.

Personally I quite like thermal to spot and the night vision to shoot because it does allow a little more identification of beasts and obstructions (it’s also cheaper which appeals)

With the exception that I use a thermal spotter and a thermal scope

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Shooting in the dark with no natural light makes it more challenging to ensure safe backdrops, graloching, extraction etc. etc.

You field of view is whatever is with the beam of your torch or that of your digital optic. It is very much narrower and shorter than your field of view during daylight with your natural light. That is what makes shooting at night inherently more dangerous that during the day.

In the same way driving in the dark is much more dangerous than driving in daylight.

More preaching lol, makes you wonder how all those folk that shoot rabbits and foxes at night and manage to do it without killing anybody.
You really do need to get out there and familiarise yourself with modern equipment, i would suggest from your comments you’re not up to speed with the capabilities, for years stalkers have been spending thousands on quality glass to glean those extra few minutes and give a better image than the human eye in last light to put more deer on the ground, if one chooses to take a shot at last light, the track, gralloch and drag is often performed in very low light/darkness, just the same as it would be with digital give or take 20mins so whats the big deal? why is it all of a sudden a big issue for people who shoot at last knockings with digital but not glass?
The argument regarding the practicalities of this part of culling deer is valid but it applies to both camps and everyone has their own take on it, theres no hard rule.
As regards shot safety with glass vs digital this is where the kudos and romance of glass is blown out of the water by the raw performance of digital, might not be everyone’s cup of tea BUT it is far far safer than any glass at last knockings, not only do you have a clearer image of the quarry you also have a clearer view of the land beyond, theres no comparison when it comes to shooting in the hour after sunset.
Out the other night for a fox, this pair emerged in the last 15mins of legal light, no torches just the scope sucking in and processing the ambient light, can you tell us what’s dangerous about taking a shot at them?

 

[rem284]

I prefer to shoot deer in daylight hours. However it is necessary for me to shoot at night with the legal measures in place to cull the required numbers and to achieve acceptable damage levels. This has become more so over the past few years largely due to renewable energy projects and other people being active in the forest during daylight hours. I work in a remote location, 25 years ago I could go a whole week without seeing another person. Now I see more people than deer.