Dog Castration

[MrMickeyD]

Hi folks, i could really do with a spot of advise.

My springer has a great pedigree, great nose, strong frame and is fast as anything, so with these qualities i wanted to keep him "intact" and breed from him in years to come. He's now 2 1/2 and, prob my fault, he's not showing great promise to being a top dog, so breeding has become less important. He still has these "puppy" moments when working where he will close his ears and just do his own thing, but on the whole not doing too bad although its been a non-stop power struggle with him. He has also become a sex pest and ought to be on the offenders register, humping (or at least trying to hump) anything on four legs. It is something of an embarrassment and i reckon could become dangerous for him as many dogs will snap at him to see him off, and if he tries it on with a bad tempered dog....

So what changes in behavior can i expect in him if he gets the snip? I'm hoping for less of a constant power struggle and I want rid of his rapist tendencies. Will the behavioral changes out weigh the loss of breeding potential?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Apache]

The best answer I can give you is 'probably'.

The dog is still young and I would expect the unwanted sexual behaviour to reduce and him to be a little more submissive. Every dog is different and the changes from castration vary. As the dog gets older the behaviour becomes learnt rather than just hormonally driven, the older the dog is when you get it castrated the less effect it has. If you don't plan on breeding get him gelded!

 

[timbrayford]

A bit drastic for such a young dog, if you are having handling problems the source may be with you rather than with your dog. Try getting hands on assistance from a good working dog trainer first.atb Tim

 

[Tom D]

I have seen several dogs which still hump things long after being cut, as apache's post says, the behaviour is now learnt. It does seem to help with an aggressive dog though...

 

[Home Loader]

My terrier would jump anything that moved and also would go looking! I was not keen to have him cut yet as their are a few people that want to use him later in the year so he has had the male pill at a cost of £50 but in my opinion the best 50 notes ever spent at the moment! he has about one month of his 6 month sentence left to serve!

 

[EMcC]

A dog, particularly a Springer, at 2 1/2 years is far too young to have gelded, something that will affect him for the next ten years, or so, of his life.
Springers, particularly males, will always be a challenge to keep on top of and need a strong willed owner during his working life, they only calm down about two weeks before they are due to expire !!
I would certainly consider professional help or, if you feel up to it, go back to basics and keep on top of him.

 

[MrMickeyD]

Rather a mixed bag of answers there guys!! Thanks though!!

I'm sure there are plenty of errors i've made in the training, and as this is my first working dog 'tis to be expected, even with all the books dvds, trainer visits etc. And perhaps i am looking for a "fix" for some of the issues i'm still having in training, but that doesn't change the unwanted sexual behaviour. Do any of you know of a training solution i could use instead? He usually gets a slap and is dragged off - anything else i can do?

 

[alaskagray]

Hi Mickey
Had my GSP done because he had a swolen prostrate the vet said it was the only thing he could do for him.
It changed the dog completely lost all his agretion put weight on where before i had a job to keep weight on him
could even take him out with other dogs without him trying to kill them.Although he did still blood trail he never
worked with so much go in him as before ATB Graham

 

[timbrayford]

Rather a mixed bag of answers there guys!! Thanks though!!

I'm sure there are plenty of errors i've made in the training, and as this is my first working dog 'tis to be expected, even with all the books dvds, trainer visits etc. And perhaps i am looking for a "fix" for some of the issues i'm still having in training, but that doesn't change the unwanted sexual behaviour. Do any of you know of a training solution i could use instead? He usually gets a slap and is dragged off - anything else i can do?

We keep entire male & female Springers together except when the bitches are on heat, when separation is necessary. It is difficult to stop dogs showing interest in on heat bitches, when there is not this distraction try to interest your dog in his work by hunting & training exercises, he needs to be focussed on you.atb Tim

 

[deermagnet]

i had my lab done as he was pretty mental and it didnt make a jot of difference to him hes now 2 1/2 and a fairly good dog but only through time attention and a very firm hand he can still be a bit puppy ish sometimes. but when it comes to his job he is spot on i regret having him done as i would probably have liked to keep his blood line live and learn but all dogs are different

 

[bewsher500]

Castrating dogs will not have the same effect when done after 18m old than it will when done before.

You are considering castrating a "teenager" when he has already discovered beer, fags and women.
may calm him down slightly but unlikely to have the major effect you may be looking for.

 

[Cseskynut]

Perhaps not realised is the potential health implications of castration, and also spaying bitches
Also, the American Kennel club research reported an increase in aggression for dogs castrated at any age

Here is an article I wrote for my practice website

And Yes, I practice what I preach - I have 5 dogs - 4 bitches and one dog - none are neutered

Neutering of Dogs - Why?
by Mark Elliott

​

There has been a long tradition of neutering dogs routinely in the UK, but is it really necessary and is it clinically beneficial for the dog in any event ?

The answer to both those questions is a categorical NO. Readers may be surprised to know that neutering of dogs is banned in 3 EU countries, as it is not of clinical benefit and regarded as an unnecessary mutilation !

We are perhaps unusual in the UK in that we tend to keep our pets indoors, whereas many dogs on the continent are kennelled. Bitches in season do tend to make a mess, and multi-sex households without kennels can find it difficult to keep dogs apart and avoid unwanted puppies.

The way anyone keeps a dog is not without significance when deciding to take on responsibility for a pet and we would state here, having assessed the evidence for and against, we will spay or castrate your dog if you wish, but, as is our philosophy, would like you to be able to make that decision in an informed way, accepting the potential problems and pitfalls that may result.

That said, we have decided ethically that we will absolutely not perform any early neutering procedures. In the specialist part of our practice we regularly now see dogs suffering problems which are likely to have arisen from this, and the evidence base is quickly growing demonstrating that early neutering is causing a range of health and behavioural problems.

Accordingly we insist on bitches having had at least one season, and dogs being at least 10 months old before surgery is considered.

So what are the issues that you need to know about to make an informed decision ?

1. 1.Cancer Risks
   

Perhaps the most common misconception in the whole debate is that neutering reduces Cancer risk.

What seems rarely discussed is that there is a known alteration of risk which may not in fact add up to be a reduction of risk.

Bitches spayed before their first season are much less likely to develop mammary cancer. Entire bitches only have a 3.4 % chance of developing mammary cancer, and whilst early neutering reduces this to approximately 0.017%; if spayed after the first season there is still a reduction to 0.27%, with this one factor declining as a “benefit” rapidly thereafter

However, incidence of Osteosarcoma (Bone Cancer) increases by a factor of 1-3 times (depending on study) and so incidence may increase from 0.2 to 0.6% of dogs.

Heamangiosarcoma appears also to increase in incidence by a factor of 5 times in bitches and 2.4 times in dogs (normal incidence in entire canines 0.2%)

Urinary Tract Cancers increase in risk by 2-4 times in bitches (normal incidence less than 1%) and Prostate Cancer in males increases by a a factor of 4 times (normal incidence 0.6%).

We will be adding figures for other Cancers we will add to this information as such become available.

It is clear to us that overall there cannot realistically be stated a net gain in Cancer prevention, and arguably there is a small increase in risk.

1. 2.Growth Problems
   

Early-neutered dogs show delayed closure of bone growth plates and so will tend to be larger than their entire siblings. They also tend to be lighter of bone structure and have narrower chests and skulls. This alters body proportions and the lengths, and therefore the weights, of some bones relative to others. In the hind legs this has been correlated with heavier legs below the stifle (knee) and an altered angle of the joint itself leading to greater risk of cranial cruciate ligament rupture, with all the attendant cost, stress and surgery needed to salvage the joint as best one can.
In the forelimb recent studies have shown that early-spayed females have significantly longer scapula (shoulderblade):ulna and scapula: metacarpal ratios although we can find no available data concerning the significance of this as yet.
Logic dictates that bone density is affected by sex hormones and certainly we have experienced a number of bitches whose lameness responds to supplements alone - those used being similar to those used for human osteoporosis. I can find no research that has specifically questioned this however.
Still more studies have suggested a higher incidence of Hip Dysplasia in early neutered dogs.

Our view is that dogs should be allowed to grow as normally as possible to achieve their optimum structure as defined by evolution.

1. 3.Pyometra
   

Pyometra is a potentially fatal womb infection that necessitates a hysterectomy in older bitches that develop it. The incidence of Pyometra by 10 years of age is variously estimated at around 23% which is significant. However, the surgery resolves it in the main, with death as a result of the condition estimated at around 4%

Surgical risks (see point 7) mean that approximately 0.1% of bitches die from the routine procedure of spaying, and we can see now some 1% of entire bitches can die of complications from Pyometra. Put in perspective that means surgery to prevent the problem only benefits 9 bitches in 1000 and one has to consider the other factors here.

We feel it is nonsense therefore to argue for neutering, especially for older bitches, on the basis of this one disease risk factor.

1. 4.Behaviour Problems
   

Neutering has been seen for a long time as suppressive of mental development, and as such permanently juvenile dogs were thought to be more compliant as pets.

However, data is now showing that neutering causes more problems than it resolves.

The American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation has reported its findings of significantly more behavioural problems in neutered dogs and bitches, and even more in early-neutered pets.

Neutered pets are MORE likely to show undesirable sexual behaviour, noise phobias, anxiety states - and in consequence aggression!!!!! Neutered males show quicker cognitive impairment with age, and combined with increased incidence of thyroid disease (see point 6) as a major consequence of neutering which itself affects mental functions as part of its symptomatology, the whole situation is clearly not ideal.

The increase in aggression scores in studies we have looked at are increased for males whenever they are castrated, but in bitches only if castrated at 12 months of age or earlier.

Those who train and work dogs regularly report now problems in training early-neutered pets, and perhaps this should not be a surprise. One hears of puppies now neutered at even 10 weeks of age and some of these cases seem to us unable to properly socialise and interact with other dogs at all, leading to a lifetime of problems for their owners, not forgetting what these dogs might be going through themselves.

Although some studies suggest there is less separation anxiety and inappropriate toileting when frightened, these are minor gains in comparison and the findings disagreed with by most in dog behaviour circles that we have discussed this with.

1. 5.Incontinence Issues
   

Studies on this issue vary considerably, but as best as we can determine between 12 and 20% of bitches become incontinent to varying degrees after spaying, usually around 2 to 3 years later.

Larger dogs are more prone, as are some breeds. Most respond to long term treatments but not all and that can be devastating when a pet is kept indoors. It can even become a reason for euthanasia

We have not found studies to determine if early neutering is more significant here, but it is our impression that it may do.

1. 6.Thyroid Disease
   

Studies on several thousand Golden Retrievers showed that those neutered were significantly more likely to develop hypothyroidism with age. Of more recent concern is that we have diagnosed early neutered dogs that have developed this condition as early as seven months of age!

Other studies have confirmed the Hypothyroid link with neutering and, for interest, the most common clinical findings in hypothyroidism include obesity, seborrhoea (greasy skin), alopecia (hair-loss), weakness, lethargy, bradycardia (slow heart rate), behavioural impairments and pyoderma (skin infection). These are all common presentations in clinical practice and we suspect Hypothyroidism is being under-diagnosed at this time.
​

1. 7.Surgical Risks
   

Various studies incorporating neutering show that post-operative complications following elective surgery vary considerably. Some show frequencies of between 1 and 24% for all complications, and 1-4 % for severe complications. Some dogs do die, but as best we can tell from these studies this is reported at around 0.1% (or 1 in 1000). It is terribly difficult to design studies to look at negative results like this but clearly surgery is not without risk, and some would put it higher in any event for bitch spays.

There is more to this story that will no doubt evolve in time, but for now our aim in making this information more available is informed choice in the decisions to make when taking on a dog as a pet.

References and Further Reading:

Complications Resulting from Sterilization/Contraception techniques –a list of research articles
http://nal/usda.gov/awic/pubs/SpayNeuter/complications.htm (saves a lot of listing)

Long term risks and benefits of early age gonadectomy in dogs. C.V.Spain et al. JAVMA Vol 224, No3, Feb1, 2004.

Canine Reproduction. Peggy Root DVM. Article for the Puli club of America
http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007Conf/Canine Reproduction.htm

Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete. C Zink 2005
http://www.caninesports.com/Spayneuter.html

Behavioural and Physical effects of spaying and neutering domestic dogs by P Farhoody and MC Zink (unpublished at this time)​

 

[Wolverine]

I would never consider any type of sterilisation of dog or bitch unless there were health implications for the dogs involved,randyness is certainly not a reason,get control of the dog IMO.Stud dogs are a nightmare when they've had a few but my dogs don't try it on with nothing but a bitch in season,however when there is a bitch in season,watch out,howling all night,not eating and downright hormonally driven and cloth eared sometimes,if one of the neighbours dogs is in,I know about it very quickly.Got to feel for them,very frustrating for them
Some dogs are a nightmare without any bitch in season,try a water pistol or a bucket of water but I've seen dogs basically thank you for this and get back to it with increased vigour after getting a soaking,more or less thanking you for their refreshing shower
Ceskynut I feel is correct,too many people and vets do this as a matter of course for different behavioural problems,no need.

 

[stone]

Good post Ceskynut
As for the OP
Neutering may lead to a slight colour change and curly coating of the spangle
In most cases the dog or bitch does put on weight regardless of feeding guidelines
They also may lose some drive in the field especially in dogs as the aggression to succeed is not as dominant
Personaly at that age I would not consider such actions unless the dog in question is aggressive
It will grow out of it's adolescence with a guiding smack or strong voice at the appropriate moments

 

[Buchan]

Csekynut’s post contain some interesting thoughts and he is right to question the validity of neutering (as one should with any elective surgical or medical procedure). I’ll take issue with some of his statements although I don’t propose getting into an argument on-line. I wasn’t aware of the research showing more aggression in neutered animals, but I’d question that neutering is a causal factor. I’ve seen an undoubted decrease in well behaved dogs and an increase in anxious dogs in the last 20 years. I suspect it is a combination of poor breeding of an already in-bred strain and feckless owners. Sadly, too many dogs are accessories to a life style.


For the average dog owner, not intending to breed, neutering brings many benefits.

As for the original post, Mike, I’m with Apache, but go and discuss it with your vet.