Dominant dogs.

[kenbro]

Hi,
Bonnie & Clyde now 15 years (12 weeks when we got them) old, Jack x Manchester terrier.
Bonnie is smaller than Clyde but has always been the dominant one with very occasional scuffles which Clyde backs down from.
3 years ago my SIL in Portsmouth tasked Wifey and me with collecting 3 Borders she had bought from Yorkshire.
We went to collect the 3 and came away with 4!
SIL came and took her 3 away and we set about introducing the (8 weeks old) new pup (Belle) to the then 13 year old Bonnie & Clyde.
Not smooth and easy!
B & C didn’t like the intruder and would probably have killed her given the chance.
Integration wasn’t easy but eventually all 3 got along okay, but….Bonnie was still the dominant dog and would sometimes pick on Belle and Belle would just roll onto her back and lay there. No harm done.
About a year ago Big Belle (Granddaughter) threw a piece of meat to Belle and Bonnie went to get it….Little Belle turned on Bonnie and chewed her back up pretty bad before we could separate them.
Off to the vet. for swing up for Bonnie.
Bonnie still the dominant one after that. Belle (The dog one) has a lovely temperament and lets Bonnie be boss…..until, that is, last week!
Belle on heat (Bonnie had Hysterectomy when quite young and Clyde has no nuts) and been displaying for Clyde. Clyde bless him has Arthritis and is pilled up on Gabapentin every day, but he try’s going through the motions and humping.
This must have got up Bonnie’s nose because she attacked Belle….big mistake, Belle retaliated and had Bonnie by the back of her neck.
I choked Belle out a bit with her collar and she let go and as I lifted Belle clear, Bonnie jumped up and grabbed Belle’s back leg. Soon sorted that out.
Been 5 days now and each time we’ve tried to get them in the same room the fighting starts again.
Luckily I’ve managed to separate them before there’s been any blood shed. But Bonnie’s neck and back are swelled up and she’s very tender.
Question is, is, has old Bonnie been displaced as Top dog and will we always see a fight if they come together in the same room?
Bonnie is frightened of Belle now and it does appear that Belle is the aggressor.
Bonnie & Clyde are fine together and so are Belle and Clyde.
Not gonna be good if we have to keep Bonnie and Belle separated all the time.
We do have a child barrier with gate in it to separate the kitchen from a lounge so that helps. And at night we take Bonnie into our bedroom now.
Opinions please.
Thanks,Ken.

 

[Dunwaters]

Looks a lot like regime change.
Dogs can be merciless and if they really get going at each other you can expect the other dog to join in the fray and actively attack the loser.
Not what you want to hear I’m sure but it’s not looking good.

 

[Norfolk Horn]

You could see if your vets have a behaviour expert to assess the problem and give advice.
I had problems with my terrier and HWV as he matured and the nurse at our local practice was spot on.
I'm 62 and had my first dog when I was 11 so it shows your never to old to learn.

 

[Jon P]

I used to keep a lot of working terriers for foxing etc, change of direction in wind could start them fighting, in the end some could not be kennelled or exercised at all together, once you get into a routine keeping them separate is not to hard.

I had a big bin of water on the yard to drop them in when fighting, most of the time they chose oxygen over drowning, reduced the issues of tearing skin pulling them apart. Would work with the jack Russell, not so much with the Patterdale’s

I had two GWP I kept separate for years- older one had bad habits I did not want the younger one to pick up, was worth it in the end.

 

[Smellydog]

Is it not why God made Hazel?
I kept hazel wands everywhere.
My dogs soon watched to see if I was reaching for one!

 

[WalkedUp]

Good morning Ken.

Only offering this as you requested an opinion, otherwise would have kept my mouth shut:

Your mistake was made 15 years ago. The dominant one should be YOU! if my dogs had so much as wrinkled a nostril at each other or anything else there would be hell to pay. Very early, it is an easy lesson for them to learn. Much like not chasing livestock. You will quickly find the only dogs that need the hot sauce are other people’s badly trained and badly socialised dogs. It’s important to protect your dogs, don’t be embarrassed about social judgment. If your dog cannot behave itself it is a danger and will not be welcome on shoots, to the pub etc and becomes a miserable existence.

 

[Smellydog]

An out of control dog is an accident waiting to happen and a sure way to spending lots at the vets.

 

[SikaSeeker]

Good morning Ken.

Only offering this as you requested an opinion, otherwise would have kept my mouth shut:

Your mistake was made 15 years ago. The dominant one should be YOU! if my dogs had so much as wrinkled a nostril at each other or anything else there would be hell to pay. Very early, it is an easy lesson for them to learn. Much like not chasing livestock. You will quickly find the only dogs that need the hot sauce are other people’s badly trained and badly socialised dogs. It’s important to protect your dogs, don’t be embarrassed about social judgment. If your dog cannot behave itself it is a danger and will not be welcome on shoots, to the pub etc and becomes a miserable existence.

What you say is right with that bunch of gun dogs that you have there, but some breeds just can’t be kennelled together because one day there’ll be a very unwell dog in the kennel

 

[kenbro]

Good morning Ken.

Only offering this as you requested an opinion, otherwise would have kept my mouth shut:

Your mistake was made 15 years ago. The dominant one should be YOU! if my dogs had so much as wrinkled a nostril at each other or anything else there would be hell to pay. Very early, it is an easy lesson for them to learn. Much like not chasing livestock. You will quickly find the only dogs that need the hot sauce are other people’s badly trained and badly socialised dogs. It’s important to protect your dogs, don’t be embarrassed about social judgment. If your dog cannot behave itself it is a danger and will not be welcome on shoots, to the pub etc and becomes a miserable existence.

Must say, those certainly look very happy dogs….
Ken.

 

[WalkedUp]

Must say, those certainly look very happy dogs….
Ken.

Good morning Ken, only one of them is mine. The grey one, an intact dog. The illustration is that they have to be thrown in a trailer all together bouncing up the hill. At that cause problems cannot go in the trailer, so cannot go on that shoot.