Drilling with Einstecklaufe

[wildrover77]

I have a hankering for a double rifle but am wondering if something a little different is a good idea.

Who knows about fitting Einstecklaufe barrel inserts to a drilling?

Was wondering what work is involved? Do the extractors need machined? or Can you simply remove the Einstecklaufe and revert to double shotgun over rifle barrels?

What drillings are suitable for Einstecklaufe? Are drilling actions strong enough?

Wondered about a triple 9.3 x 74r or should I go for shotgun / fullbore / rimfire?

Can anyone answer my questions?

 

[Mungo]

@Heym SR20 is your man to talk to

 

[Mr. Gain]

I have a 16g/7x57R drilling that I shoot a deer or two with each year. It's a lot less sexy than a double rifle, but so far I've never needed a second barrel. I initally toyed with the idea of getting an ESL for it so as to have a larger-calibre rifle cartridge available, but to the best of my knowledge the wild boar haven't reached Brum yet, and the 7mm takes care of everything that an ounce of #5s can't, so I remain contentedly einstecklaufless.

Of course, there's more to be said in favour of an ESL if your drilling is chambered for a cartridge that's significantly bigger than you need for UK use.

I do still fancy a double rifle, especially a little Chapuis S12 in 30R Blaser, but just can't at present see when it would get the use to justify its place in the cabinet. I shall have to think harder.

 

[Heym SR20]

I have done this with my 7x65r combination - i had an einstecklauf made in 7x65r and then fitted.

Well I now have a double 7x65R in my possession!

Following on from previous threads Turning a Combination Gun into a Double Rifle I picked up combination gun from local gunsmith who had fitted the Einstecklauf I had ordered from Germany. The trickiest part in the whole proceedings was persuading my FEO that adding a liner barrel (or...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

it works pretty well. It can be adjusted so that it shoots to point of aim. It adds weight of course, but gun was pretty light in the first place.

it is a fit and leave it in place type - rather than keep taking it in an out. I put it in if going on a trip for Boar, but mostly I use the combination as it is - gives me more options.

if you can find a double rifle, or double rifle with combination barrels that would be a better bet. Pretty regularly available in auctions or on eGun.

 

[Heym SR20]

Re the OP - some of the older 16 bore drillings handle well, but a lot of the 12 bore ones are frankly too heavy.

The 9.3x74r is a nice calibre and not bad to shoot, but it is nearly at the 375h&h power level and is good enough for really big game. Great for wild boar and African game. But for UK use, especially in Scotland it only meets min velocity at lightest bullet loadings. Its a 100 to 150m cartridge.

The light 7mm are probably better deer cartridges. The 7x65r shoots the 140gn at 2800 fps and the 173gn at 2650 fps. So with the 140 / 150gn is a very capable open country cartridge, but with a bigger bullet good for driven boar. Recoil is perfectly manageable.

And don’t discount slugs. They turn any drilling / combination into a pretty useful double rifle - that is if you are allowed to use.

I did think long and hard about a 22 Centrefire einstecklauf. My conclusion was that it would have limited use. I have a perfectly good 7x65r that will kill any fox that walks past. I could even shoot a hare or rabbit in the head. And have the shot barrel is very useful. Plenty of times a deer hunt has blanked or haven’t seen the right animal but used the shot to walk up grouse, phaesant, duck and woodcock.

I do have the idea of use a squib load - using whatever the modern equivalent of trailboss is to shoot a light 100gn bullet at speed of sound to replicate a rook & rabbit rifle for small game. But we don’t have any rabbits so never done so. And in any case rabbits are more fun shot with a shotgun.

 

[Dalua]

Which drillings are suitable for Einsteckläufe? Are drilling actions strong enough?

I think this might be the main question. I think one of the reasons that most insert barrels for triplets seem to be for minor calibres (.22RF, Hornet etc) is that the upper barrels have more leverage over the knuckle and lock-up and therefore need to be at the wussier end of the spectrum. Bigger inserts are available, but the actions must be strong enough to cope - and I think most traditional or older models might not be.

The other reason, of course, is that you end up with the versatility of a Bergstützdrilling - something for (nearly) everything. You also (usually) get a set-trigger on the rifle insert.

 

[wildrover77]

Bergstützdrilling - just tried googling this, What does it mean?

Do the ESL hold zero if you remove and replace?

How about the extractor/ ejector question?

I am starting to wonder if I am letting my heart rule my head. I understand they are starting to die out on the continent.

Sounds like if you start using large Cali restaurants inserts you are just going to loosen the action quickly.

 

[mchughcb]

I have nothing more to add except this.

 

[Jamouk]

I always wanted a double rifle for years and then managed to find a james Beattie of London double hammer rifle , which had been converted to a .410 shotgun , its a thing of beauty ill try and put up a pic in a bit , maybe another option ? Was definitely a cheaper option

 

[Jagare]

My LGS has triple rifle drillings in 9.3x74R and 8x57JRS in stock. Last time I was in there I handled a new Merkel double rifle drilling in 8x57JRS over 20 bore. What a beautiful handling bit of kit. The fit and finish was superb and the engraving was high quality, much better than the normal dog collar engraving you normally get. Cost about £5500 and if I didn't already have a double rifle that drilling would now be sat in my gun cabinet

 

[Steff]

Bergstützdrilling - just tried googling this, What does it mean?

Do the ESL hold zero if you remove and replace?

How about the extractor/ ejector question?

I am starting to wonder if I am letting my heart rule my head. I understand they are starting to die out on the continent.

Sounds like if you start using large Cali restaurants inserts you are just going to loosen the action quickly.

Answering your initial questions I am afraid your idea is not a good one.
A Drilling (originating from the word 'drei' = 'three') is typically a gun with two shotgun barrels and a rifle barrel underneath. The reason it is located beneath the shotgun barrels is to reduce the turning momentum on the bascule from the high pressure rifle rounds. Any responsibly acting gunsmith will usually only fit an Einstecklauf (=insert barrel) up to a maximum of .22 Hornet into a traditional Drilling for this very reason. I know, there is nothing which doesn't exist and I have seen larger caliber insert barrels in such Drilling, but those constructions are doomed to fail sooner or later.

Also, insert barrels are usually only fitted to the right hand barrel in order for the front set trigger to be used with the insert barrel. If you want to fit two insert barrels you will have to live with the very hard pull weight of the rear trigger on the left barrel.

The extractors do indeed need to be worked on. They are drilled and cut for the extractor claw of the insert barrel to be filtted. But the extractor will still be functional for regular shotgun use.

Insert barrels add quite some weight and make the gun in question rather unhandy. Fitting two insert barrels will turn the gun into a monsterous beast to carry and hold.

Insert barrels always render an accuracy issue. You need to be very lucky to take them out and refit them without having some sort of POI deviation.

Now comes your 'Bergstützdrilling'. I know what you mean, but the word doesn't exist. The term is 'Bockdrilling', with the word 'Bock' coming from the verb 'aufbocken' (to mount something on top, or to raise). A Bockdrilling has a deer caliber rifle barrel fitted underneath a shotgun barrel and a third, small caliber rifle barrel located on the side of the main barrel bundle. These a usually very fine and also expensive guns.

The word 'Bergstützdrilling' is obviously an auxiliary term combining 'Bergstutzen' (= 'Mountain short rifle', being a small caliber rifle barrel on top of a deer caliber rifle barrel) and 'Drilling'.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I have a 7x57R/16 Sauer 3000 drilling and I sourced a full length .22 Hornet for the right tube off egun, there had been a 22cm Krieghoff .22 mag in there when I bought it but it was sold on by me on a US trip as they make$450 over there. The Hornet ran me 200 euros and I adjusted it to impact same as the 7mm myself, no drama and am happy with the outcome. It is my winter highseat gun as I use a BBF in summer months.

 

[Heym SR20]

The experience I have had with my ESL is:

1) when fitted it causes the bottom barrel to shoot about 3” to the left. Presumably because of the extra weight affecting the recoil.

2) When I fit the ESL it is reasonably close to previous point of aim, but can often be three of four inches off. It often needs a little adjustment and a few shots to settle down. The ESL in itself is more than accurate enough.

I do have a straight Docter 1-4x20 with just a red dot reticle zeroed for the Double.

I still have the bottom main barrel which is the “accurate” one, which I would still use for a longer shot.

The top barrel is for a quick double shot and out to 50m its plenty close enough. I have used it on Running boar range and you can two bullets into the boar in one pass. Much faster than even a Blaser R8. And you can reload quickly so yes you are little behind on 3 and 4, but well ahead on 5 and

Once the ESL is fitted it stays in until I don’t need it.

I have actually only used it once in anger. I had a roe doe coming through the wood on a driven hunt in Germany. The bullet went a bit far back. It went down but was struggling so shot it in the head with the top barrel. All done instinctively in much less time than it took to write this paragraph.

Earlier I had a sounder of pigs come through, but all bunched very close so no shot offered.

And since last two years have had no trips to Germany - nov 19 I had to pull out as Father was undergoing major surgery and then Covid Hit.

Before doing this I did do calculations on backthrust compared to the 16 bore. Yes the 16 is at lower pressures, but this pressure is across a bigger area, whereas the rifle is higher pressure across smaller area, and actual thrust is similar. I also discussed it with Hambrusch who built it in the first place. Mine has a kirsten top lock and Hambrusch was totally comfortable with the strength of the action. They used the same action for doubles.

Many older pre-war drillings were on thinner and daintier actions with low pressure 9.3x72r type cartridges (many now obsolete). These are old and not as strong.

If you want a tough, but affordable double the Valmet / Tikka / Finnclassic 412 / 512 is a very good system. Now made by Maroochi in Italy although think might be discontinued

Finn Classic 512S Universal Weapon System

Finn Classic 512S Universal Weapon System The Finn Classic 512 provides the possibility to purchase an entire hunting weapons system. This particular offering is: 12 gauge multi choke ejector shotg…

grants-sports.com

Frankonia in Germany do a number of combination / double rifles - worth a look. Some are built by smaller Italian makers and more affordable than Blaser / Merkel etc.

Many German hunters have a combination / double or drilling sitting in their cabinets. Usually handed down through the family. But as they have no limit on numbers of longarms they can keep, they stay there.

A few years ago there were quite a few nice double rifle / shotgun sets going through the auctions. Mostly former British Army officers had them built in Germany / Austria whilst on service and they were coming to the market as these gentlemen went to happy grounds in the sky.

 

[User00025]

Would it be possible to put say a .222 insert into a .30 cal kiplhauf?
If so who does it in UK.

 

[stevec]

Would it be possible to put say a .222 insert into a .30 cal kiplhauf?
If so who does it in UK.

I think you can get EL inserts for rifle barrels above 9.3mm.

 

[stevec]

I think you can get EL inserts for rifle barrels above 9.3mm.

In Germany. I would have thought Alan Rhone would be the best bet for that sort of thing in this country

 

[stevec]

The Drilling by Norbert Klups covers these subjects in a lot of detail, although my wife hid my copy for a while to stop me attempting to discuss it with her! She is a much better shot than me but has no interest in the technicalities of drillings for some reason...

 

[Bavarianbrit]

eGun

FYI. This the list on egun today. Rostfrei = Stainless

 

[stevec]

Frankonia in Germany do a number of combination / double rifles - worth a look. Some are built by smaller Italian makers and more affordable than Blaser / Merkel etc.

I spoke to someone who worked for Chapuis a few years ago and he said that Chapuis will build BBFs with interchangeable double rifle or shotgun barrels by special order. I suppose the stock will always be a compromise though.

I too am very fond of getting distracted by Frankonia!

 

[Dalua]

Now comes your 'Bergstützdrilling'. I know what you mean, but the word doesn't exist. The term is 'Bockdrilling', with the word 'Bock' coming from the verb 'aufbocken' (to mount something on top, or to raise). A Bockdrilling has a deer caliber rifle barrel fitted underneath a shotgun barrel and a third, small caliber rifle barrel located on the side of the main barrel bundle. These a usually very fine and also expensive guns.

My typo, I'm afraid - an omitted 'en' in the middle and a random umlaut.

Bergstutzendrilling 96LD | Drillings, Guns | Merkel

Bergstutzendrilling 96LD The Bergstutzen drilling is a typical gun used on a high seat for a single shot. With two rifle barrels of different caliber and one shotgun barrel, this drilling is a gun that offers every opportunity to the hunter, whatever game he encounters in the glade. The set...

www.merkel-die-jagd.de

A triplet including a Bergstutzen.