DSC 2 - worth it?

[willie_gunn]

I'm sure they can align. But if you don't have your own ground and you need to book stalks, it is much tougher as booking stalks tends to be several months in advance.

Nice one on getting it done for the candidate, though!

Scrummy

Again, I'd suggest ask around. Not every AW is running a full-on commercial deer stalking business, and may find it easy enough to slot in a witnessed stalk within a couple of weeks.

The Candidate who approached me had tried three or four other AW's beforehand, and faced some of the challenges you mention, but working through the list came up with a result that happily worked for all.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I’m very anti the whole qualifications thing as a rule but DSC2 is worth doing I would say because it’s not that difficult - you should be doing it to a standard already so then you just take someone along to watch you do the job and verify that you are competent.

It’s only going to become more necessary so get it now would be my advice (as someone who avoided even level 1 for a very long time).

Doing 1 beast rather than 3 doesn’t really make a huge difference unless you are nervous that you can’t consistently hold the standard up - it’s less time intensive though so that helps.

 

[scrumbag]

Again, I'd suggest ask around. Not every AW is running a full-on commercial deer stalking business, and may find it easy enough to slot in a witnessed stalk within a couple of weeks.

The Candidate who approached me had tried three or four other AW's beforehand, and faced some of the challenges you mention, but working through the list came up with a result that happily worked for all.

Willie, I think you're very kind and possibly rare. Those of us that only take paid stalking have no option but to book paid stalking are in a different boat. We need to find commercial stalking and the guy is an AW

 

[willie_gunn]

Willie, I think you're very kind and possibly rare. Those of us that only take paid stalking have no option but to book paid stalking are in a different boat. We need to find commercial stalking and the guy is an AW

It does make it tougher if you don't have your own ground. However there are AW's out there who can offer paid stalking but can still fit you in at short notice. Of course they also need to be within a reasonable travel distance to make it economically viable for the Candidate.

That is part of the reason why when you had to do three stalks, ideally using more than one AW, many found it a challenge both financially and time-wise.

 

[Burnies Boy]

I am following this discussion with regard to completing DSC 2 qualification with interest but not for the same reasons that most of the posts on this thread.

Let me explain, I work in the oil & gas, pipeline and nuclear fabrication industry over the past thirty years I have spent a fortune on courses to further my qualifaictions
to improve my job prospects and keep continuity of employment. I have worked alongside guys whose employers have funded their courses who feel that spending their own money on courses and qualifications could not be justified.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that there people who are willing to commit their time, effort and money to learning and those who prefer to find an excuse for not doing so.

Now to the stalking part I hold DSC2 (old system 3 stalks). I really enjoyed the whole experience the learning for DSC 1 and the stalking for DSC2. For me it was a chance to do something a bit different which I might not of done otherwise. A sika in Sutherland, a red in Caithness and a roe in Morayshire it took me 18 months to acheive this but it was worth every penny.

"The best investment you can make is an investment in yourself."

 

[scrumbag]

It does make it tougher if you don't have your own ground. However there are AW's out there who can offer paid stalking but can still fit you in at short notice. Of course they also need to be within a reasonable travel distance to make it economically viable for the Candidate.

That is part of the reason why when you had to do three stalks, ideally using more than one AW, many found it a challenge both financially and time-wise.

I quite agree. I did the old 3 stalk system with commercial providers. Took some planning but not something I would fancy having to organise quickly

 

[unimog72]

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand and one times, so apologies if I'm repeating countless threads, but is the DSC 2 worth doing? Giving it serious consideration as I believe you can't be too qualified. Cheers.

yes worth doing some land managers will want it

 

[terrier1]

Don't want to hijack this thread but can someone tell me why it was changed from three stalk to one and who decided to change it.

 

[Tazz]

No downside to doing it if you are keen. You do learn by preparing and and passing the requirements, many syndicates want it as an entry requirement, the police like it regarding grants/renewals, if you go on paid stalks out of your area Scotland etc it gives you some cred with the stalker your going to go out with, I am happy I completed mine

 

[willie_gunn]

Don't want to hijack this thread but can someone tell me why it was changed from three stalk to one and who decided to change it.

The DSC2 was changed by DMQ, effective 1st April 2021, see Changes to Deer Management Qualifications (DMQ) – Deer Management Qualification

 

[Wills]

If it is proviso to get access to some stalking you wouldn't normally have, then yes.

I think some of us (me included) feel that the kudos has been watered down a bit, moving from three stalks to one, but that may be internally within the community. Externally with insurers and land agents I don't think they have given it much thought. Wait until a DSC 3 comes out...

Everything at the end of the day is a punt, there are no guarantees.

Depends what stalking you want to do too.. hill and plantation stalking is different to lowland roe on in a nice meadow. Access to it is different as well.

 

[willie_gunn]

I think some of us (me included) feel that the kudos has been watered down a bit, moving from three stalks to one, but that may be internally within the community.

Sadly that seems to be the case.

In my experience most of those criticising the new scheme have little if any practical experience of it. They also now seem to treat the old 3-stalk scheme as though it was some kind of gold standard, ignoring the many criticisms of it that were voiced at the time, including here on SD.

I have said before that DSC2 is hardly rocket science, and any experienced stalker with a working knowledge of Best Practice should find it easy to achieve. Sadly many in the stalking community seem instead to prefer bigging up how difficult and complex it is, the motive for which I find difficult to comprehend.

 

[Stalker62]

They also now seem to treat the old 3-stalk scheme as though it was some kind of gold standard, ignoring the many criticisms of it that were voiced at the time, including here on SD.

You will forgive me.

You are in danger of committing the same 'offence' with regards the 'old' DSCII as you accuse others of, with regards the 'new' DSCII.

Whilst it is true I have absolutely no experience of the 'new' scheme, I will repeat (dull I know) what I have said before - that for me, I am glad I did the 'old' scheme. I have (I hope) never condemned the 'new' scheme - neither have I ever (again I hope) claimed the 'old' scheme was a 'Gold Standard".

I can only base my comments on my experience. I found my DSCII challenging (also expensive) but the completion of it gave me so much more than a piece of paper and a badge.

For better or worse, the 'new' DSCII is in place, and for those who have yet to complete it, I would encourage them to do so.

 

[Utectok]

Yes worth doing interesting and opens doors

 

[Scotty99]

If you believe having it will open up opportunities for new ground or you are looking at ground which requires it, then go for it. Otherwise don’t bother. DSC1 on the other hand is well worth doing if you are relatively new to stalking. If you are an experienced stalker just crack on.

 

[willie_gunn]

You will forgive me.

You are in danger of committing the same 'offence' with regards the 'old' DSCII as you accuse others of, with regards the 'new' DSCII.

Whilst it is true I have absolutely no experience of the 'new' scheme, I will repeat (dull I know) what I have said before - that for me, I am glad I did the 'old' scheme. I have (I hope) never condemned the 'new' scheme - neither have I ever (again I hope) claimed the 'old' scheme was a 'Gold Standard".

I can only base my comments on my experience. I found my DSCII challenging (also expensive) but the completion of it gave me so much more than a piece of paper and a badge.

For better or worse, the 'new' DSCII is in place, and for those who have yet to complete it, I would encourage them to do so.

I fear you are taking my comments too personally.

I did my DSC2 in 2004 and have witnessed Candidates as an AW since 2010. The whole experience of achieving my DSC2 was challenging, as it is meant to be, but also enjoyable and educational. Anyone who has passed their DSC2 - whether under the old scheme or the new - can be justifiably proud.

However the old scheme was also inconsistently measured, expensive and administratively inefficient. That is not denigrating the achievement of DSC2, but rather the process by which DSC2 was awarded. That process needed to be updated. The reasons behind the changes were explained at length at the time, certainly to every AW. It is not my concern whether people agree with those reasons or not, but neither can I see why anyone who was actively involved in the old process would seek to dispute them. Go back through the archives on SD and there is evidence aplenty.

What I have tried to highlight to those here who do criticise the new scheme - and I am sure even you would admit that phrases such as "devalued", "cheapened", "watered down", etc come up frequently - might reflect on why the process needed to change. They might also consider the possibility that gaining your DSC2 under the new format might in some ways be tougher than under the old.

 

[Stalker62]

I fear you are taking my comments too personally.

Not at all.

I have never found your posts 'personal'.

Just throwing in my view, on something that I put my heart and soul into (not to mention a small fortune and the best part of three years).

My views are only related to my experience and (I hope) are demonstrably so.

 

[willie_gunn]

I have never found your posts 'personal'.

With the possible exception of those regarding the Supporters Draw

 

[4616Oxon]

Not with only one witnessed stalk… is a bloody joke!

I thought dsc2 needed up to 7 witnessed “proper” stalks and grallochs? Or has this changed

 

[willie_gunn]

I thought dsc2 needed up to 7 witnessed “proper” stalks and grallochs? Or has this changed

Yes, it changed on 1st April 2021, see Changes to Deer Management Qualifications (DMQ) – Deer Management Qualification

Prior to that date DSC2 required 3 Individual Cull Reports (ICR's) to be completed by the Candidate, over as many outings as necessary to meet the performance requirements. Post that date the requirement was reduced to 1 ICR, on the proviso that all the requirements were to be completed in one outing.