DSC1 cancelled
- Thread starter Jh1986
- Start date
Good, If you get stuck you can come up here and drill holes in my AR450 target with the .270.
We were all newcomers to deer however prior experiences of rabbits/foxes does make a big difference as small targets develop your skills. what are your previous experiences on the rabbits etc?
Just re-reading your comments. Actually this is pretty shocking that an Instructor would fob someone off like that and let them proceed to shoot a rifle, let alone take an assessment, after they have indicated that they have a problem with the loaned equipment! I thought that was the whole point of BASC doing the course over four days rather than two or three like most other companies, so that the students were better prepared?
It was something I'd certainly never experienced on the 3 rifles I'd shot previously, not any air rifle in my youth. Also, I was shooting 2 inches right of zero and was told the rifle zero wouldn't be adjusted, and to just compensate. Not making excuses, I know the miss was mostly down to the seated position. Just pointing out that the estate rifle should really be a last resort. Use your own if you can
That is appalling. The estate rifle option should be your best opportunity not worst. You are taking it very well but many wouldn’t be so gracious.
bottletopbill
Well-Known Member
Have you booked a another assessment yet I know you are p o but you know you can do it as we all see.
I'd suggest more practice. As it happens I used Chris Howards rifle, back in the day when I did mine on the old course of fire. At Wadhurst Park with the BDS.
Intended to use my 308, but back then, on a target condition only, so could not legally possess expanding/deer legal ammunition in those days. After some discussion with them, decided the simplest thing was to use the "club rifle", i.e. Chris's personal one, an RPA in 243, with his ammunition (his own reloads it turned out).
It didn't fit me at all, totally right handed thumbhole stock too long for me (I am a lefty) and the scope set up for shooting standing, far too close when prone. He is also at least a foot taller than me. Nevertheless, I adjusted to it, club shooting sharing all sorts of other members rifles teaches you that and makes you adaptable.
First thing I did was to try to get comfortable. Then asked to dry-fire it to feel the trigger. After two dry fires I had it sussed (he does set them light).
Back then the course of fire was three prone at a 100yard zeroing target into IIRC 3", a low barrier. Surprising how many couldn't manage that with their own rifles and ammo. Poor preparation. Then three prone at 100 yards, sitting or sticks at 75, standing or sitting off short sticks at 50. IIRC
I was, OK, an experienced target shooter also with some prior field experience, mostly on vermin, but also already five deer (paid stalks BTW).
I thought it was easy-peasy, everything into less than 2" of the centre of the non-delineated kill zone. Easy enough to place, line up vertical crosshair with rear of foreleg, horizontal crosshair halfway up body.
Surprised how many struggled, even failed after two or three goes you could try as many times as you liked back then, but on my course they stopped at three tries
Then you need to practice more in field positions. Sitting and kneeling. standing. Particularly breath control, which is an essential skill for any sort of rifle shooting.
That does not sound correct. The DSC1 shooting assessment must be taken using the official DMQ roe target, copyright. You can buy them from the BDS. The main target can be patched up over the misses (BDS can sell you a roll of patches too). The target zones take inserts, which you can also buy, these should fit behind the main target, and be aligned with the aperture where they are designed to fit, using the faint line printed on them. These inserts are readily photo-copyable for practice, and matte black, same as the overall target. Without a high powered scope you should not be able to see the join.
At least in my day, the targets had to be returned to DMQ for independent validation before a pass was officially declared .Same with the multiple choice papers. The simulated stalk I suppose was down to the examiners. No funny business allowed. OK you might be unofficially told, on the day, that you have passed DSC1, but until you receive the certificate, or a list of what parts you have, and which you have not passed, so need to re-sit, you don't know.
There was someone who designed a reduced sized target to practice with using e.g. an air rifle in the back garden, a pdf file to print on A4 or A3, but I can't find a link anymore. Probably broke copyright also. Probably quite useful for practice with e.g. a spring air rifle at 25 yards, or a rimfire at 50. You could probably design such a thing for yourself, given an official target to copy from.
Fundamentals: To shoot a deer (or other quarry) which do not come with a convenient hi-vis aiming point, you need to be able to identify a suitable aiming point purely based on the body shape, and be confident of being able to place your bullet into it, or near enough, every time.
The DSC! shooting assessment is ISTM a good controlled test, but IMO just a start. If you can't do it you shouldn't be trying to shoot quarry with a rifle (any sort really) yet. Nowadays you are allowed two attempts. Yes conditions might vary, from perfect conditions to rain to wind etc. it should be done in good light, but starting at 100 metres should not be an issue. If you haven't managed it by the second try, you are sent away to come back another day, when you are better prepared. That seems about right to me.
I am guessing that you have not taken a formal shooting assessment. Nor maybe been trained, or at least prepared yourself for assessment only. perhaps you should even if you never intend to be examined. You can buy the DSC1 manual from the BDS to study. Old dogs, new tricks ?
I really think that is not the case, the opposite in fact. The trainers, and examiners would like you to succeed. However, if you aren't good enough, they must fail you. No arbitrariness should happen.
Any proper course and examination should result in a proportion of fails. Otherwise it is of little value, even to the attendee. Might as well just be an attendance course where everyone passes and gets a certificate.
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Practice the whole course of fire at 100 yards or 50 with a 22 rimfire (suitably scaled down targets for the latter) and once you’ve nailed it shoot the test as per exact distances to ensure you understand the required aim/hold for each.
K
K
I am sorry, but perhaps you are not very experienced with centrefire rifles, or at least not been sufficiently challenged. To be 2" off at 100 yards from what I suspect was a good rifle, you might have being doing something quite wrong. Nor that practiced in field positions.
Turning it around, I mainly use estate rifles for paid stalks. Usually first time out with a new guide start with a "test zero" i.e. so guide can see if I can shoot for toffee and manage expectations. And for me to realise whether the estate rifle is any good, or at least how far I would be prepared to spray it.
Sometimes that doesn't happen with a new guide. Here, the rifle is spot-on, so and so told me you can shoot, lets crack on. Umm, no, I'd like to try it first. Sorry, don't have a range here. Nope ,all that I expect is to be able to shoot a pop can with it, at 100 metres, off my sticks. Yep, ok, put it out there. Hmm, two shots later, not hit. Not even close. So, guide, you shoot it for me please. 3 shots later (and getting low on ammo), guide had failed to hit it also.
Hmm, we are out after roe and muntjac, is less than 100 yards likely on this ground ? No, not really.
Mutually agreed to call off the outing.
With other trusted guides, the conversation might be: I've brought the 243, as well as the 30-06. They are just as you last used them. (I trust him). Ok lets use the 30-06, there is a chance of large fallow and the 70gr varmint bullet in the 243 might not do. I shoot dead-on with the 243, with the 30-06 always about 3/4" high and right, which I put down to being left handed, unlike him. Know it, compensate, has worked for me several times
Slight correction, it is done starting at 100m, and the shorter distances in metres also nowadays. The target has not changed in dimension, apart from the addition of the headshot despatching shot. So it is a tiny bit more challenging than before. Basically a broadside on heart/lung shot on a precisely delineated black roe silhouette, at 100m, from prone, bipod, roesack, elbows, whatever, or from a closer field position, some sort of usual support (yes maybe even quad sticks rather than twin, but I daresay a tripod might not be allowed) at 75m.
Two goes.
TBH, it is far less challenging than say head shooting rabbits with a 12fpe air rifle, or body shots on squirrels. I do think it is rather a low barrier to entry, but nevertheless might sort out some of the wheat from the chaff.
But maybe my arrogance exceeds my grasp ...
paul o'
Well-Known Member
Most lads fail for two reasons
1/ They worry what others will say or panic and put the wobbles on even if they are a fair shot !
2/ They don't or can't practice enough and already have a wobble on when walking to the range forget that 4" bucket you are wishing to hit !! Its practice on smaller targets you need to hit ! get a coffee cup size lids and practice on them then go smaller! then the dustbin of a target will be like hitting a barn door in a rain storm.
More than happy to help you on shooting if you have a place to rattle off what you need or wish to practice. FOC
1/ They worry what others will say or panic and put the wobbles on even if they are a fair shot !
2/ They don't or can't practice enough and already have a wobble on when walking to the range forget that 4" bucket you are wishing to hit !! Its practice on smaller targets you need to hit ! get a coffee cup size lids and practice on them then go smaller! then the dustbin of a target will be like hitting a barn door in a rain storm.
More than happy to help you on shooting if you have a place to rattle off what you need or wish to practice. FOC
yup….you are guessing.
Nope, not really. What have you got ?yup….you are guessing.
FYI if you want to work in forestry management nowadays, the entry level is DSC2, together with a shooting skills test, probably annually renewable. People do get rusty/complacent/just maybe not quite as sharp as they once were years ago. Me included.
Then the Scots have the "fit and competent" register also.
Private people also looking for deer managers might also be looking for such qualifications nowadays.
Example: Tendering for a Deer Stalking Lease - The British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Those tendering for a licence in England will be required to undertake a skills test. This is usually in the form of a shooting test and being competent in the DSC1 shooting standard should cover all possibilities. Applicants would be wise to take the time to practise on the range in order to familiarise themselves with these shooting positions prior to the test. This would usually include three shots in to a 10cm circle at 100m prone position, two shots in a deer target killing area at 100m prone position, two shots in deer target killing area at 70m kneeling or sitting position and two shots in deer target killing area at 40m standing position. Some may include a close range despatch shot. These requirements are available to view on the DMQ website for reference.
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