DSC2 bang for buck.

[Dave31]

Hello, I've been out a few times now and would like to start progressing towards DSC2 with a view to taking a syndicate position at some point in the future. A lot of the ones I see coming up need that qualification.

Im not expecting to get the qualification in the very near future, as I fully appreciate how inexperienced I am. I'm really just looking to make progress and learn the good habits early.

I don't have my own ground and paying for lots of stalking is a bit prohibitive having a young family, mortgage ect.

So my question is, what would be the best and most cost effective way to get the experience needed to make progress? Is it worth doing a foundation type course? Is there anything you would recommend?

Or is it worth just continuing to get out as and when I can on paid stalks (4-6 times a year currently).

Another thought is would it be worth contacting professionals to ask whether they would be willing to take someone out on a cull day (leaving the rifle at home) to help with gralloching (probably with a bit of a teach and some oversight at first) and dragging?

I'm in Glasgow.

 

[Dave31]

A bump for those checking SD after finishing work!

 

[willie_gunn]

First off, well done for seeking to continue with the education.

Finding a professional who will explain and demonstrate what’s required would be ideal but, as you can probably imagine, this may not be easy. For many professionals time is money, and they may not have any spare to spend it teaching or mentoring.

As I never did the foundational type course I can’t speak to their effectiveness. However certainly what many Candidates can lack is the familiarity with the post-shot process. This typically comes with experience, but having an intensive lesson, such as that available via a foundational course, may give a good opportunity to pick up on, or polish, the basics. If you get the hands-on opportunity to inspect and gralloch a few animals, that would be perfect.

Given that you are already going on paid stalks, another suggestion may be to find a guide who is also an Approved Witness.

Explain to them that you are considering starting the DSC2 process, and that you’d appreciate it if, once you’ve shot an animal with them, they could take you through a few carcass inspections and grallochs to get you familiar with what to expect when doing a Witnessed stalk. Ideally, also ask if they will take you through the transportation and lardering process, as these are the parts that, in my experience at least, quite a lot of Candidates are unfamiliar with. From there you can progress to doing the inspection and gralloch, again under supervision from the guide, being sure to ask them to tell you when they feel you’re ready for the actual Witnessed stalk.

Sadly I can’t advise on which of the above would be the cheapest, or quickest, option to pursue. Both are probably workable, but neither is perfect.

 

[Dave31]

First off, well done for seeking to continue with the education.

Finding a professional who will explain and demonstrate what’s required would be ideal but, as you can probably imagine, this may not be easy. For many professionals time is money, and they may not have any spare to spend it teaching or mentoring.

As I never did the foundational type course I can’t speak to their effectiveness. However certainly what many Candidates can lack is the familiarity with the post-shot process. This typically comes with experience, but having an intensive lesson, such as that available via a foundational course, may give a good opportunity to pick up on, or polish, the basics. If you get the hands-on opportunity to inspect and gralloch a few animals, that would be perfect.

Given that you are already going on paid stalks, another suggestion may be to find a guide who is also an Approved Witness.

Explain to them that you are considering starting the DSC2 process, and that you’d appreciate it if, once you’ve shot an animal with them, they could take you through a few carcass inspections and grallochs to get you familiar with what to expect when doing a Witnessed stalk. Ideally, also ask if they will take you through the transportation and lardering process, as these are the parts that, in my experience at least, quite a lot of Candidates are unfamiliar with. From there you can progress to doing the inspection and gralloch, again under supervision from the guide, being sure to ask them to tell you when they feel you’re ready for the actual Witnessed stalk.

Sadly I can’t advise on which of the above would be the cheapest, or quickest, option to pursue. Both are probably workable, but neither is perfect.

Thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head with the post shot process being my weakest area.

I think some sort of intensive course/mentoring would help make sure I get it right early and have good habits from the start.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[keith74]

If Argyll area is any use then give me a shout could probably help.

 

[cjm1066]

DMQ2 registration last 3 years, so only register when you are ready, how quickly you pick up grallocking and learning the lump nodes varies, lots of good online videos to help. The BDS cd are good.

 

[Dave31]

Hi

If Argyll area is any use then give me a shout could probably help.

Hi Keith, thanks for replying. I'll send you a PM.

 

[User00040]

Sign up and you'll be given a list of approved witnesses with contact details, on there will be 'able to provide ground' next to their name with a check box.

Get in contact with those that can accomodate and ask prices.

Back when it was 3 stalks to achieve DSC2, there were a few 'bundle' merchants who could 'get it done in a day' (usually on Roe Does) and it was about £5-600 going rate in Scotland. Englandshire was around £1k+ for a simillar setup.

Honestly I'd ask and see if someone who was an AW would do a bundle witnessed stalk and assessment as is sometimes listed here. It's only 1 deer now and no male season in Scotland may make it easier.

 

[Overlay]

Carry on what you’re doing and ensure whoever you use will give you advice and experience to get you on the road to getting the right procedures for the gralloch and internal ID etc, ( don’t bother going stalking with anyone who won’t or can’t show the easiest and correct way they will be wasting your time ) no need to rush get yourself comfortable with and what you have to achieve, the course is for one stalk but a lot to be done / trained up and get capable of carrying out a L2 stalk, there is a lot to take in, my advice would be learn 100% a bit at a time then put all the bits together, it doesn’t matter how you do it, as long as it complies to the ICR
From the past 3 or 4 I’ve done with candidates the areas proved to be sticky - the lymph nodes, after the shot- tracking wounded deer and some bits of the law - take your time and cover all eventualities - there is no rush - register when you think you’ve got it covered and keep training up to be compliant to the ICR and it’s your way and the way you undertake the stalk, get it right, be safe, considerate to deer and enjoy - good luck

 

[willie_gunn]

Thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head with the post shot process being my weakest area.

I think some sort of intensive course/mentoring would help make sure I get it right early and have good habits from the start.

Thanks for the reply.

DSC2 really isn’t rocket science. A good guide who is familiar with DSC2 should be able to take you through everything you need to know. Remember that nothing in DSC2 is designed to catch you out, and nearly all of it is based on a combination of simple common sense and Best Practice.

As @Overlay says, take your time and become comfortable with the whole process before doing the Witnessed stalk. There is no rush.

Given that you're in Scotland, you may want to invest some time familiarising yourself with the Best Practice Guidance: Best Practice Guides - Best Practice Guidance As its name implies, this is Best Practice - if you know and follow this, you will have everything you need for your DSC2. There is a separate version for England & Wales here: Best practice guides | The Deer Initiative

Anyone can access the downloads on the DMQ website: Downloads – Deer Management Qualification Go there and download the relevant documents for both the Candidate and the Approved Witness, and it will tell you all you need to know to prepare for a Witnessed Stalk:

• DSC2 Candidate Curriculum Vitae - an editable PDF file that you need to fill out when you register and then email to your Assessor
• ePortfolio Candidate Guidance - an 81-page document that takes the DSC2 Candidate through everything from registering, to accessing the ePortfolio, to finding and using a witness, completing a Witnessed stalk and the Assessor interview
• ePortfolio Candidate Narrative - the document you need to fill out after your Witnessed stalk and email to your Assessor
• Approved Witness Brief - a 107-page document, where page 24 onwards explains to the Approved Witness what they should look for when witnessing a DSC2 Candidate and what criteria should be observed to prove that a Candidate has successfully met the Performance Criteria.
• ePortfolio Individual Cull Record - the document the Approved Witness will fill out and send to the Assessor after your Witnessed stalk.

If you're thinking of doing DSC2 then, even if you're just going out stalking on your own or with a guide, before every outing perhaps print out the Individual Cull Record above and using it to take yourself through the process, everything from deciding what's on the cull for a stalk all the way through to lardering and keeping records. Take plenty of time over elements such as the inspection and gralloch, making sure you do things like checking for diseases and parasites, and identifying the lymph nodes. Make a particular point of locating and examining the sub-maxillary and retropharyngeal lymph nodes, since these are the ones a lot of stalkers skip prior to embarking on the DSC2. As I mentioned before, don't forget to cover the post-shot elements, from removing the head and legs, to transporting the carcass hygenically, to lardering the deer and keeping records.

Most of all, take the time to enjoy and learn from the whole experience - you will come out of it a more knowledgable and experienced stalker.

 

[Dave31]

Some really useful information and advice from everyone. Thanks.

 

[Basil H]

Why is it a requirement for the candidate to submit a C.V. ? Prior experience should not be relevant when judging a candidate's performance during assessment.

 

[willie_gunn]

Why is it a requirement for the candidate to submit a C.V. ? Prior experience should not be relevant when judging a candidate's performance during assessment.

The CV is a single-page pro-forma, made up mostly of tick-boxes. It is designed to give the Assessor a brief idea of the Candidates stalking experience before speaking with them, and saves having to ask every Candidate the same basic questions.

 

[Klenchblaize]

DMQ2 registration lasts 3 years, so only register when you are ready …..,..,

This^

K

 

[TheDeerWalker]

Sorry for jumping on the back of someone elses thread, but you got me thinking about bang for your buck and intensive courses - I did an intensive driving course back in the day and it suited me down to the ground.

I registered for the DSC2 and was helping out the Red Hind cull, but the keeper I was helping has got a new job in New Zealand and it's a bit to much of a commute for a permission, so am now permissionless. I live in the central belt (Falkirk) and have only ever done Open Hill stalking never Roe which is all there is around me, but I enjoy learning and collecting qualifications (by-product of our education only valuing grades!) so want to get my DSC2 and then save up to join a decent syndicate - most of which are now asking for the DSC 2.

While for the last season I have shot and processed hinds, it certainly wasn't by the book and wouldn't get me the tick from an approved witness.

What I'm really hoping for is a 2/3 day intensive, with like two practice stalks showing the full steps that need to be showed and pointers followed by an assessment. Can do it over a few weekends if i'm able to plan in advanaged, time is hard at the moment and was hoping to get this under my belt and looking for syndicates before October. Might be a pipe dream, and not trying to game the system.

Does anyone know of anyone doing this sort of thing in Central Belt?

Also, what are the kind of prices people would expect from an Approved Witness?

Cheers

 

[NullMac]

The best way to learn is hind/doe stalking at an estate with a larder and a stalker that understands your needs and is happy to help you learn. I was very fortunate in finding that. Does not have to be reds either.

I think there are two things here a) doing the apprenticeship to learn the skills and b) passing DSC2 for whatever reason. The two are essentially different. When you have done a) then b) is easy but sadly (and despite what they think) having passed DSC2 as quickly as possible does not mean the apprentiship is complete

There are lots of videos online that will let you know what you need to show, BASC included so that can be covered off at the kitchen table. Seems to me practical larder experience is the hardest to get. See above...

Learn to shoot properly. That way you are not a liability and can get things done efficiently so people are more inclined to help

 

[Jon P]

Sorry to hijack this tread, but on a very similar track- asking for a friend- after completing your assessment stalk for level 2 , what are the current time scales of getting the phone call from the independent assessor for the Q&A session.

 

[RF76]

Hello, I've been out a few times now and would like to start progressing towards DSC2 with a view to taking a syndicate position at some point in the future. A lot of the ones I see coming up need that qualification.

Im not expecting to get the qualification in the very near future, as I fully appreciate how inexperienced I am. I'm really just looking to make progress and learn the good habits early.

I don't have my own ground and paying for lots of stalking is a bit prohibitive having a young family, mortgage ect.

So my question is, what would be the best and most cost effective way to get the experience needed to make progress? Is it worth doing a foundation type course? Is there anything you would recommend?

Or is it worth just continuing to get out as and when I can on paid stalks (4-6 times a year currently).

Another thought is would it be worth contacting professionals to ask whether they would be willing to take someone out on a cull day (leaving the rifle at home) to help with gralloching (probably with a bit of a teach and some oversight at first) and dragging?

I'm in Glasgow.

Dave,
Send me a PM and I'll point you in a good direction for an AW/DSC2 close to you, who can put a package together and see you through.

Jon P,
When I completed mine, once the AW had submitted their report and had their own phone call with the Assessor, my phone call was literally within days. All depends on the available time for you both ie job / family etc.

 

[Franko_1983]

Dave,
Send me a PM and I'll point you in a good direction for an AW/DSC2 close to you, who can put a package together and see you through.

Jon P,
When I completed mine, once the AW had submitted their report and had their own phone call with the Assessor, my phone call was literally within days. All depends on the available time for you both ie job / family etc.

RF76 - am central Scotland (Ayrshire) based would you be able to share with me as well AW/DSC2 details please?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The best way to learn is hind/doe stalking at an estate with a larder and a stalker that understands your needs and is happy to help you learn. I was very fortunate in finding that. Does not have to be reds either.

I think there are two things here a) doing the apprenticeship to learn the skills and b) passing DSC2 for whatever reason. The two are essentially different. When you have done a) then b) is easy but sadly (and despite what they think) having passed DSC2 as quickly as possible does not mean the apprentiship is complete

There are lots of videos online that will let you know what you need to show, BASC included so that can be covered off at the kitchen table. Seems to me practical larder experience is the hardest to get. See above...

Learn to shoot properly. That way you are not a liability and can get things done efficiently so people are more inclined to help

Agree, I paid 7,000 odd Deutschmarks for my two Jagdschein courses back in 1998-9 and after passing the exam the assessor was very clear about "now the real learning begins".