Electronic earmuffs fit

[caorach]

In the end you just have to experiment until you get something that works for you as none of us know exactly what will work for other people. I think this is where most people go wrong with foam earplugs, and foam eartips for various devices, in that they assume one size fits all and if they first one they try doesn't work then this means game over. It is like trying on someone else's boots that don't fit and, as a result, deciding that boots aren't suitable for you. I use the 3M LEP-200s and I knew the flanges wouldn't work for me and that it would take a while to experiment with foam tips but in the end I've now got several good solutions, including the 3M eartips, and the CENs ones also work for me.

Once you put them into your ear then the ear canal opening should return to shape, I've certainly not had any problems with this not happening.

Like you I concluded that the CENs tips were probably sourced from Comply.

 

[Alantoo]

One thing did cross my mind with the grm’s... when you roll them up to get them in it closes the little hole,

I don't roll the tips up at all...I hold the body of the LEP and just insert with the body vertical and when it is inserted rotate it backwards to locate in the ear.

I have had a few times when I can't hear the turning-on beeps, so take them out to check they are clear, and sometimes that has apparently been the displacement of the foam over the tube because they were clear of clag.

I have found after too many uses that the hole in the tip can get plugged with wax/clag so take them off the LEPs and poke a paper clip through to clear. I give the tips a regular clean with a wet wipe, washing up liquid, or hand cleaner... whatever is handy...and so far have actually used very few pairs so far, even with using the plugs regularly.

Alan

 

[Cottis]

I don't roll the tips up at all...I hold the body of the LEP and just insert with the body vertical and when it is inserted rotate it backwards to locate in the ear.

I have had a few times when I can't hear the turning-on beeps, so take them out to check they are clear, and sometimes that has apparently been the displacement of the foam over the tube because they were clear of clag.

I have found after too many uses that the hole in the tip can get plugged with wax/clag so take them off the LEPs and poke a paper clip through to clear. I give the tips a regular clean with a wet wipe, washing up liquid, or hand cleaner... whatever is handy...and so far have actually used very few pairs so far, even with using the plugs regularly.

Alan

Hi

I am looking at replacing standard muffs with in ear plugs which I prefer.

Looked at a few and have come to the conclusion that Peltor are probably the best ones to go for, mostly because lithium battery is better than forever changing those natty little batteries. I shoot a lot, so this is a big plus. They also seem to have decent sound attenuation rating which is good for obvious reasons.

Looking at various places, there are LEP 100's and EEP 100's which seems different by about half the price, being a different colour and possibly having a slightly different charging box/port set up.

I am struggling to find any information on why there is such a large price difference. The cheaper EEP version is not really available but I can get it back ordered. Do you know of any difference between the two that justifies the massive cost difference. If there is not really any difference, I will back order the cheaper set but if there is a reason to spend more, I will bit the bullet and hit the buy button on the LEP's.

Thanks in advance

 

[Orion]

Looking at the specs for the LEP v EEP it appears that in addition to the in-case charging facility, the advantages the LEPs have are mainly adjustable volume levels and better (omnidirectional) microphones over the EEPs. I think both of those features would make a difference for me in a hunting or wildlife environment - they certainly do with driven shooting - less so elsewhere.

 

[Alantoo]

Hi

I am looking at replacing standard muffs with in ear plugs which I prefer.

Looked at a few and have come to the conclusion that Peltor are probably the best ones to go for, mostly because lithium battery is better than forever changing those natty little batteries. I shoot a lot, so this is a big plus. They also seem to have decent sound attenuation rating which is good for obvious reasons.

Looking at various places, there are LEP 100's and EEP 100's which seems different by about half the price, being a different colour and possibly having a slightly different charging box/port set up.

I am struggling to find any information on why there is such a large price difference. The cheaper EEP version is not really available but I can get it back ordered. Do you know of any difference between the two that justifies the massive cost difference. If there is not really any difference, I will back order the cheaper set but if there is a reason to spend more, I will bit the bullet and hit the buy button on the LEP's.

Thanks in advance

I do not know what the difference is either I am afraid...the sound attenuation specification appears to be the same.

@fizzbangwhallop may be able to help...though the lack of battery recharging facility on the hoof in the case would seem to account for most of it. The EEP's case apparently does not have the battery compartment for three AAAs. But I have never used that facility so it would not deter me from buying them.

When I first found them and reported them on here in December 2017 I was looking at number of manufacturers electronic in-ear plugs which were all around the £300-£400 mark.

When I bought my LEP 100s direct from Amazon they were £210.83 plus VAT so £253.00. Elsewhere they were on sale at over £500 and Amazon themselves were selling replacement single plugs at £185 and the charging/carry cases at £150...pricing seems a bit random to say the least.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

Looking at the specs for the LEP v EEP it appears that in addition to the in-case charging facility, the advantages the LEPs have are mainly adjustable volume levels and better (omnidirectional) microphones over the EEPs. I think both of those features would make a difference for me in a hunting or wildlife environment - they certainly do with driven shooting - less so elsewhere.

I hadn't picked up on the microphone difference, but I thought I had read that the EEPs had the same three volume levels...must go and look again...

I use the different volume levels regularly, a very useful feature.

Alan

P.S. have just looked at the Earshot communication link I posted earlier and the .PDF product sheet states...

Earplug Volume Steps:

3 steps, Low, Normal, High

https://www.earshotcommunications.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/3M-Peltor-EEP-100-Product-Sheet.pdf

 

[Orion]

I hadn't picked up on the microphone difference, but I thought I had read that the EEPs had the same three volume levels...must go and look again...

I use the different volume levels regularly, a very useful feature.

I've gone to the 3M website rather than Earshot Coms and I think the EEPs do have adjustable volume - so the difference in price must be down to the better microphones and the remote, battery powered, charging case then. Be interesting to have a real world review though.

 

[Alantoo]

I've gone to the 3M website rather than Earshot Coms and I think the EEPs do have adjustable volume - so the difference in price must be down to the better microphones and the charging case then. Be interesting to have a real world review though.

Yes...guess we will just have to sit and twiddle our thumbs until @fizzbangwhallop comes along!

Alan

 

[Orion]

Yes...guess we will just have to sit and twiddle our thumbs until @fizzbangwhallop comes along!

Say his name thrice and he must appear!

 

[Cottis]

In that case @fizzbangwhallop

 

[Cottis]

I do not know what the difference is either I am afraid...the sound attenuation specification appears to be the same.

@fizzbangwhallop may be able to help...though the lack of battery recharging facility on the hoof in the case would seem to account for most of it. The EEP's case apparently does not have the battery compartment for three AAAs. But I have never used that facility so it would not deter me from buying them.

When I first found them and reported them on here in December 2017 I was looking at number of manufacturers electronic in-ear plugs which were all around the £300-£400 mark.

When I bought my LEP 100s direct from Amazon they were £210.83 plus VAT so £253.00. Elsewhere they were on sale at over £500 and Amazon themselves were selling replacement single plugs at £185 and the charging/carry cases at £150...pricing seems a bit random to say the least.

Alan

Thanks for that. I might well be an extra guinea pig as the charging on the go bit is probably not a big deal for me. I could see it being pretty good for people who use them more remotely than I do. Most of my shooting is done where I basically live but if that were not the case, charging on the go would be a big deal.

Thanks for your help

 

[awmc]

Very informative
I’ve had a hearing test and the examiner said my hearing had been damaged. I knew this but she said hearing was about certain pitches. I can hear bird and animal calls, the deer running ahead in woodland but often I genuinely can’t catch what my wife, her mum, my mum and women say. Different pitch it seems. So I’d rather not be encumbered by muffing up. I don’t want to hear a flea’s heart beat and I’m not scared of risking more damage from culling deer (60 to 100 per year using a moderator).
Hope you sort out getting the rechargeable protection you seek

 

[Cottis]

I've gone to the 3M website rather than Earshot Coms and I think the EEPs do have adjustable volume - so the difference in price must be down to the better microphones and the remote, battery powered, charging case then. Be interesting to have a real world review though.

I just bought a set for £125+ VAT through work. Obviously because my desk is a noisy place

Not much money for what they are, so happy to take a chance and see what they are like. Will report back when some squirrel forays with the Browning and an unmoderated .222 have been completed.

 

[Orion]

I just bought a set for £125+ VAT through work. Obviously because my desk is a noisy place

When it comes to shooting business purchases you'd be surprised at how noisy I've actually made my workplace.

 

[Alantoo]

Thanks for that. I might well be an extra guinea pig as the charging on the go bit is probably not a big deal for me. I could see it being pretty good for people who use them more remotely than I do. Most of my shooting is done where I basically live but if that were not the case, charging on the go would be a big deal.

Thanks for your help

I picked up a pair of stereo bluetooth earplugs to listen to music from my phone, and the carry case/recharging station on those had a mini or micro USB socket at one end to charge up the 18650 battery it contained, and then a standard USB socket so you could use the battery to top up anything else, like your mobile...or a pair of EEPs...I am sure there are loads of similar battery packs available if you need off grid recharging...I have never been more than 16 hours away from a power source...and I just plug a USB lead into the LEP box when I am in the car if it is low...

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

In that case @fizzbangwhallop

Let's not get carried away, with this one it is now 5 times...

He is evidently not so Fizzy today eh?

Alan

p.s. I have just realised...he is probably wearing his EEPs and can't hear us calling....

 

[paul o']

I use the gel covers in my MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X they fit well enough on my lugs

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

..... my apologies....only a few days late to the party!

Yep, I can confirm there are 3 volume levels to the EEP’s. iirc..Re-reading the specs last week between these and the lep/tep versions... the EEP’s don’t have the Bluetooth connectivity with the neck loop option that the others have?

Charging is easy...they just get plugged into the usb socket on the wall socket in the kitchen at the end of the day.

As mentioned above, a couple of times the left plug is sometimes a struggle to hear it turn on when there’s a noisy background....the hole through the middle wasn’t blocked but it could be the case that the tip was still squeezing the hole ship it?

It did give me a bit of a shock as to how much hearing I’d actually lost in that ear ...although I need to mark the plugs in order to prove that it’s not just the case that one plug is quieter than the other. (Wishful thinking on my part).

On the whole, I’m very pleased with them, the CENS Mino tips from puretoneretail are a lot easier to fit than having to squeeze the sample pair of grm’s and way ahead of the 3 pairs of silicone cups in attenuation (I thought they did bugger-all in that respect). They not showing any signs of getting ’tired’ either.

I was loading on a double gun day on Monday.... first drive was in a fairly steep sided narrow gorge/valley, I was wearing a pair of peltor optime 2’s as well to mitigate the noise transmission through the bone/soft section under/behind the ear theory .... no good for conversation though.

Second drive and in the rush to get on the peg, I forgot the muffs... the plugs by themselves were a revelation! No apparent effect of bone transmission, tinnitus same as before, conversation was clear and the plugs were very effective at cutting out the shot blasts. I found I could reasonably control the noise of the wind through the trees just on the volume setting.

So, all in all, I’m very pleased I made the jump..... I had a pair of cens moulds done at Specsavers a couple of years ago with just the passive inserts but never upgraded to the electronic modules due to the cost of those, along with the running costs in batteries and servicing.... looks like that was the right decision in view of the bad service reputation reports they’re getting now.

Cheers

fizz

 

[Alantoo]

I was wearing a pair of peltor optime 2’s as well to mitigate the noise transmission through the bone/soft section under/behind the ear theory .... no good for conversation though.

Second drive and in the rush to get on the peg, I forgot the muffs... the plugs by themselves were a revelation! No apparent effect of bone transmission,

Your experience is borne out by some of the research I have read.

I can't remember if I have posted these articles/ links before...the gist being that the bone and soft tissue transmission which bypasses the hearing protection device has been found to be reduced better by deep fitting foam plugs than muffs.

In order to damage the hearing I gather the bone and tissue transmit the vibration to the ear canal walls which in turn pass it on to the cochlea.

The foam plugs dampen those ear canal wall vibrations...the muffs do not.

The only way to prevent skull bone transmission would be to enclose your head in a Space or Divers helmet! I think that is one of the reasons tank and helicopter crews wear them.

Alan


Has to do with shooting guns but still applies: Hearing Loss Through Bone Conduction Elliott H. Berger Hearing Conservation/NIHL 522

If a patient wears earmuffs in combination with custom made earplugs, can you still get hearing loss through bone conduction (through the skull) when shooting a variety of guns? What is the rate of attenuation from external noise to the cochlea through bone conduction?

Answer
The limits to the attenuation for a perfectly attenuating hearing protector, that are imposed by the flanking bone-conduction pathways, vary from about 40 - 60 dB across frequency. This means that even if a hearing protector could block all of the sound entering the earcanal, that sound attenuated by 40 to 60 dB would still get though to the cochlea, and like the sound transmitted via the air-conduction pathway, this energy can cause hearing loss. However, in all but the most extreme environments, this will be sufficient protection. For all but the most susceptible ears and all but the most extreme amounts of gunfire, noise reduction that equals the attenuation imposed by the bone-conduction limits should be quite sufficient. The much larger issue is making sure that the shooter is properly wearing the single or double hearing protection devices to get the maximum protection they can provide

Soft Tissue Conduction as a Possible Contributor to the Limited Attenuation Provided by Hearing Protection Devices

Soft tissue conduction as a possible contributor to the limited attenuation provided by hearing protection devices - PubMed

Results do not support the notion that skull vibrations (BC) contributed to the limited attenuation provided by traditional HPDs. An alternative explanation, supported by experimental evidence, suggests transmission of sound to inner ear via non-osseous pathways such as skin, soft tissues, and...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract
CONTEXT:
Damage to the auditory system by loud sounds can be avoided by hearing protection devices (HPDs) such as earmuffs, earplugs, or both for maximum attenuation. However, the attenuation can be limited by air conduction (AC) leakage around the earplugs and earmuffs by the occlusion effect (OE) and by skull vibrations initiating bone conduction (BC).
AIMS:
To assess maximum attenuation by HPDs and possible flanking pathways to the inner ear.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
AC attenuation and resulting thresholds were assessed using the real ear attenuation at threshold (REAT) procedure on 15 normal-hearing participants in four free-field conditions: (a) unprotected ears, (b) ears covered with earmuffs, (c) ears blocked with deeply inserted customized earplugs, and (d) ears blocked with both earplugs and earmuffs. BC thresholds were assessed with and without earplugs to assess the OE.
RESULTS:
Addition of earmuffs to earplugs did not cause significantly greater attenuation than earplugs alone, confirming minimal AC leakage through the external meatus and the absence of the OE. Maximum REATs ranged between 40 and 46 dB, leading to thresholds of 46-54 dB HL. Furthermore, calculation of the acoustic impedance mismatch between air and bone predicted at least 60 dB attenuation of BC.
CONCLUSION:
Results do not support the notion that skull vibrations (BC) contributed to the limited attenuation provided by traditional HPDs. An alternative explanation, supported by experimental evidence, suggests transmission of sound to inner ear via non-osseous pathways such as skin, soft tissues, and fluid. Because the acoustic impedance mismatch between air and soft tissues is smaller than that between air and bone, air-borne sounds would be transmitted to soft tissues more effectively than to bone, and therefore less attenuation is expected through soft tissue sound conduction. This can contribute to the limited attenuation provided by traditional HPDs. The present study has practical implications for hearing conservation protocols.

(PDF) Measurements of bone-conducted impulse noise from weapons using a head simulator

PDF | High-intensity impulse sounds are generally considered to be more damaging than continuous sounds, so understanding the attenuation performance of... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

(PDF) The reduction of gunshot noise and auditory risk through the use of firearm suppressors and low-velocity ammunition

PDF | Objective: This research assessed the reduction of peak levels, equivalent energy and sound power of firearm suppressors. Design: The first... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

Comprehensive reply Alan ...I’ll read it more thoroughly later.

There must be some sound transmission through tissue, bone and the eustachian tubes as evidenced by the number of earpiece microphone devices that pick up clear speech that can’t come directly from the mouth....perhaps they do, phones are pretty good at that?

I’m thinking here of the Jawbone bluetooth phone earpieces......and years ago when doing firework displays, we had 2 way radios where the microphone was within the in-ear earpiece speaker and no bigger than a normal in-ear speaker ....so just the thin cable to go in under the chainsaw helmet muffs. (Think they’re still in the loft somewhere).

Perhaps we should remember to keep our mouths firmly shut when shooting ...never a bad thing!

cheers

fizz