EU crying wolf,,,,

Have spent some of my life - not enough though - in the African bush, there is nothing quite like being at the same level as a McDonalds burger in the ecosystem to make you feel alive.

I do think that as a species, and here in Europe and I include the UK we should be making room for many of the iconic species including the large predators. But we also need to find a way of allowing them to live alongside us, and be able manage the numbers and where they roam.

If they become problem then they are pushed back or culled. Predators are intelligent and soon learn to avoid danger. Indeed no reasons why there should not be predator hunting with open seasons etc - probably on a licence basis like they seem to manage everywhere else.

It also needs a holistic view on the management of our countryside and especially the wilder areas. At the moment there are many different deeply entrenched views on the matter with little room for accommodation of other view points or interests. Mostly it comes down to money. Take sea eagles. Hugely valuable to those running tourist operations. But none of that gets into the hands of the crofter who looses lambs to the eagles.


There are plenty of parts of the world where livestock are kept alongside large predators. Large herding dogs, shepherds/ cow hands and overnight corrals are whats required and these work in those parts of Europe where wolves exist. A lot of such animals are milked so revenue is coming from milk and cheesemaking as well as from meat. A lot of livestock farming is heavily subsidised using tax payers money and plenty of sheep are purely there for the subsidy.
 
Last edited:
Wolves eating sheep in Europe?

They wouldn’t dare try that here in Britain - the rewilders and MLM (Mad Left Media) would surely forewarn us of such consequences for stakeholders’ livelihoods, surely, even though they don’t actually have any skin in the game themselves, of course…

They can see their power is ebbing away in almost every member state (how ironic given our own post brexit form of soviet style socialism now
being foisted upon us!), and are now scrambling to row back on their mad ideas.

Better to leave management options to those in the front line of attack and facing loss of income - after all, if no harm is done, no action need be taken - though this means loss of purpose for clipboard jockeys and similar unproductive administrative types; the compensation schemes never work, and take no account of the true breeding value or genetics lost.

One only need look at where so-called conservation bodies manage land, they are great at letting apex predators rip, though pretty useless at affording prey species unmolested living space no matter how rare any prey species might be - stunning value for money there.

The answer isn’t ’More EU’ or ‘more regulation’ any more than it is ‘more predators’ - ask any caper or grey partridge. That’s without the introduction of their proposed larger predators, mind.
 
Last edited:
The only predator I think could be reintroduced sensitively and wouldn't disastrous for farmers are European brown bear, while they are a predator they are omnivorous so imo wouldn't harm livestock to degree wolfs would, obviously they will have some impact but out them all for me the bear would be most suited the UK.
Would be interesting experiment in the Cairngorm National Park
 
The only predator I think could be reintroduced sensitively and wouldn't disastrous for farmers are European brown bear, while they are a predator they are omnivorous so imo wouldn't harm livestock to degree wolfs would, obviously they will have some impact but out them all for me the bear would be most suited the UK.
Would be interesting experiment in the Cairngorm National Park
Surely Richmond Park would be the optimum place to trial an apex predator reintroduction in the UK. Plenty of deer there.
 
Surely Richmond Park would be the optimum place to trial an apex predator reintroduction in the UK. Plenty of deer there.
Apart from
Discarded vapes and half empty KFC buckets, what might they eat?

Joking aside, what (apart from ground-nesting or ground-jugging birds) might the Cairngorm Park bears eat, if not domestic stock? It’s not as if there’s a bumper crop of either blaeberries or salmon there to fatten him up for the winter sleep?
 
Apart from
Discarded vapes and half empty KFC buckets, what might they eat?

Joking aside, what (apart from ground-nesting or ground-jugging birds) might the Cairngorm Park bears eat, if not domestic stock? It’s not as if there’s a bumper crop of either blaeberries or salmon there to fatten him up for the winter sleep?
Goretex is pretty nutritious :eek:
 
We’re more controllable, or at least we should be, and we are actually better at it, whether the aim is simply to reduce numbers, or manage a population to a defined target.
I have to comply with seasons, restrictions on where I can hunt, what I can hunt when I get there and what methods and tools I can use to achieve a cull.
Apex predators operate under a black flag, 24x7x365, no close seasons, no sanctuary areas, no regard for age or sex or dependant offspring, anything anywhere, any time is fair game.
At the same time, the apex predators themselves are strictly protected.
If you want management, get humans to do it, if all you want is some fuzzy landscape objective, let the wolves do it but you’ll need a management plan for the wolves and it’ll take time to develop the necessary skillset.
Ask the Swedes.
 
The only predator I think could be reintroduced sensitively and wouldn't disastrous for farmers are European brown bear, while they are a predator they are omnivorous so imo wouldn't harm livestock to degree wolfs would, obviously they will have some impact but out them all for me the bear would be most suited the UK.
Would be interesting experiment in the Cairngorm National Park
Close but no cigar.
I believe the thought of introducing large predators to the british Isles is very naïeve, at best, at worst, downright dangerous.....theory and practice are totally different. As FF mentioned, there is alot of more easily obtainable food in fields, stables and bins then having to kill "natural" prey species. Add to the mix f*ckwit members of the public that just want a selfie with the wee bear. If you don't believe it will happen just look at Richmond park or some of the carparks off the A9? (Red deer)
PS. I live in a country that has Polar bear, brown bear, wolves, lynx, wolverine, racoon dog, fox, badger, pine martens, stoats and weasels as predators. Reports of golden jackal up North as well.
One of the main differences is the small population (about half of London) and lots of land. There is conflict for sheep and reindeer farmers, hunters dogs and in some case people/ families in rural areas with problem animals/ too tame/ not scared of people.
 
Last edited:
The only predator I think could be reintroduced sensitively and wouldn't disastrous for farmers are European brown bear, while they are a predator they are omnivorous so imo wouldn't harm livestock to degree wolfs would, obviously they will have some impact but out them all for me the bear would be most suited the UK.
Would be interesting experiment in the Cairngorm National Park

You have to be joking right? Wolves are bad enough but brown bears 😂.

Plus side least we could all get some heavy artillery from the feo.
 
Personally I think all that nonsense about wolves causing problems with livestock is nonsense - for heaven’s sake sure they said the same about those soft and really fluffy sea eagles on the Isle of Wight only a couple of years ago.
Silly boys…
🦊🦊
Wot?
Wot?
 
While I was being a little sarcastic, I still think out of all the Apex predators the bear would have the least impact as our countryside stands just now, plenty badgers and midges for them to nibble on, having watched a sow and two cubs from a high seat in Slovakia they appeared to be grazing and grubbing for bugs.
I do not actively want bears in the countryside I was pointing out that they would be less damaging than twenty wolves, they also come with benefits, see video attached.
 
Close but no cigar.
I believe the thought of introducing large predators to the british Isles is very naïeve, at best, at worst, downright dangerous.....theory and practice are totally different. As FF mentioned, there is alot of more easily obtainable food in fields, stables and bins then having to kill "natural" prey species. Add to the mix f*ckwit members of the public that just want a selfie with the wee bear. If you don't believe it will happen just look at Richmond park or some of the carparks off the A9? (Red deer)
PS. I live in a country that has Polar bear, brown bear, wolves, lynx, wolverine, racoon dog, fox, badger, pine martens, stoats and weasels as predators. Reports of golden jackal up North as well.
One of the main differences is the small population (about half of London) and lots of land. There is conflict for sheep and reindeer farmers, hunters dogs and in some case people/ families in rural areas with problem animals/ too tame/ not scared of people.
Am aware of how stupid the general public can be with the wild animals we have, a couple of good maulings would soon give the countryside a breather from the general public win win. 😁
 
It will just be mucking around the edges if they only allow shooting.

On the American continent there are only 3 (well 4 - that is poison so completely off discussion) methods that actually result in significant numbers of wolf culls
1 - Running with dogs/ shooting ahead of dogs. This really only works when conditions are just right (snow). But when conditions are right - very effective
2 - Trapping (leg holds and snares) - will often get most of a pack at one time when done correctly
3 - Aerial shooting - mostly an Alaska thing
 
The only predator I think could be reintroduced sensitively and wouldn't disastrous for farmers are European brown bear, while they are a predator they are omnivorous so imo wouldn't harm livestock to degree wolfs would, obviously they will have some impact but out them all for me the bear would be most suited the UK.
Would be interesting experiment in the Cairngorm National Park
Bears are arseholes, particularly European brown bears, they’re forever breaking into houses and barns, they chase little old ladies walking their dogs, they intimidate and attack hikers and anyone else who has either the temerity or bad luck to wander close to a sow and her cubs and generally behave as if they own the place and everything else is a trespasser.
They also kill livestock, lots of it, and will break into stalls barns and sheds to do it. Once they kill something they get quite possessive, won’t leave their kill and will have a go at anything trying to shoo them off.
No thanks.
I am willing to consider lynx, Amur leopards or Siberian tigers. Just big cuddly pussy cats.
 
Back
Top