Expanded OK?

[Tim.243]

Dug this out of a Muntjac this morning, stats 100yds 95gn Hornady SST
Shot under the chin, big wound channel stopping by the spine between the shoulder blade in the layer under the hide.

Leant my fine scales out so will have to find a set to use for the retained weight.

 

[Border]

Looks like it expanded fine. Not tempted to try the non lead alternatives Tim?

 

[Tim.243]

Looks like it expanded fine. Not tempted to try the non lead alternatives Tim?

Yes it did, if it's not broken don't try to fix it

 

[Scipio]

Yes it did, if it's not broken don't try to fix it

weeeeell luckily not all follow that creed, or you'd be showing us pics of an arrow head instead of a lead bullet

 

[ColinBr]

weeeeell luckily not all follow that creed, or you'd be showing us pics of an arrow head instead of a lead bullet

Have yet to find a copper bullet as good as lead. I'm not against copper either, and I'm currently trying out more just now, but evolution is meant to be for the better.
I've yet to see it.

 

[Tim.243]

weeeeell luckily not all follow that creed, or you'd be showing us pics of an arrow head instead of a lead bullet

Thank God we have the sense in the UK not to allow bow hunting (bows are for tying off your boot laces)

 

[Scipio]

Have yet to find a copper bullet as good as lead. I'm not against copper either, and I'm currently trying out more just now, but evolution is meant to be for the better.
I've yet to see it.

Hello Colin, joking aside, as i see it, as long as lead ammo is legal, it is every mans right to use it, and he shall hear no complaints from me.

The point you raise is an important one, and not all developments are by default improvements. In that case they will likely need further developments, or they might struggle to survive. And non leads are still quite new and are developing still, so let's see how it goes from here.

This said, regarding the non leads we have available to us today, there are many good threads on here on this very issue. My take from those threads is that non lead ammo is, above all, different to lead ammo in its terminal ballistics. Those traits need to taken into consideration with shot placement, impact velocity, sectional density etc. to make the most of use of them. In short it is a new tool in the tool box, and like all other tools the users needs to learn how to use them well, before their full capacity is seen. If that is done however, my expectation is that non leads can be quite effective and satisfactory, But i shall see myself quite soon. as this will be my own first season with non leads

 

[ColinBr]

Hello Colin, joking aside, as i see it, as long as lead ammo is legal, it is every mans right to use it, and he shall hear no complaints from me.

The point you raise is an important one, and not all developments are by default improvements. In that case they will likely need further developments, or they might struggle to survive. And non leads are still quite new and in developing still, so let's see how it goes from here.

This said, regarding the non leads we have available to us today, there are many good hreads on here on this very issue , and my take from those threads so far, is that non lead ammo is, above all, different to lead ammo in its terminal ballistics, and those traits need to taken into consideration with shot placement, muzzle velocity, sectional density etc to make the most of use of them. If that is done they can be quite effective and satisfactory to use as well. But i shall see myself quite soon. as this will be my own first season with non leads

Yes I've used various types of non lead now over the last 3 years or so. Like you say you just have to accept (should we really?) that they have limitations. Currently I'm trying Barnes LRX in my 6mmXC and will be trying them in the 6.5PRC when it arrives.
Too early yet to pass judgment on how good they are, but likewise very much doubt they will be as good as the Sierra Gamechangers

 

[weblyish]

Thank God we have the sense in the UK not to allow bow hunting (bows are for tying off your boot laces)

Been an archery instructor for 10 years now.

Love practicing and can definitely hit a 4"target at 50m and very likely at 100y. I've shot broadhead armour /piercing historic arrowheads
I've also done a field archery course where you shoot animal targets in a wood

Never once have I considered actually hunting with a bow it is just far too variable and falls the wrong side of a safety net for being humane and quick with a margin over and above killing power

 

[Scipio]

Yes I've used various types of non lead now over the last 3 years or so. Like you say you just have to accept (should we really?) that they have limitations. Currently I'm trying Barnes LRX in my 6mmXC and will be trying them in the 6.5PRC when it arrives.
Too early yet to pass judgment on how good they are, but likewise very much doubt they will be as good as the Sierra Gamechangers

Well that non acceptance combined with a chance of profit is hopefully why the non leads will not stop developing just yet, and can hopefully be improved upon. Now of course it is not an impossibility that lead is made legal again, or not made illegal, depending on where one hunts, but the tendency at the moment does seem to be going in the way of the non lead hunting ammunition.
I'll be using the barnes ttsx 120s in my 7x57 and the fox classic 100 grns in my 6.5x57, and i hope to see good results, but if not i shall have to take the consequence, and try other non lead projectiles. Your 6.5 prc should be well suited for the non lead era though, i suspect.

 

[Scipio]

Been an archery instructor for 10 years now.

Love practicing and can definitely hit a 4"target at 50m and very likely at 100y. I've shot broadhead armour /piercing historic arrowheads
I've also done a field archery course where you shoot animal targets in a wood

Never once have I considered actually hunting with a bow it is just far too variable and falls the wrong side of a safety net for being humane and quick with a margin over and above killing power

Hello weblyish, - well we can hunt certain game animals with them here in Denmark, but like with rifles there are tests to pass, pounds of pull to be met and distances to be respected with bows too, if you want to do it legally and ethically. I do wonder why cross bows are still illegal to hunt with here, since bows are not. If anything they should be easier to train and hunt with.

 

[KimE]

Archers had to be trained from teenagers to be good for war, crossbows could be used by conscripts and farmers.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Yes I've used various types of non lead now over the last 3 years or so. Like you say you just have to accept (should we really?) that they have limitations. Currently I'm trying Barnes LRX in my 6mmXC and will be trying them in the 6.5PRC when it arrives.
Too early yet to pass judgment on how good they are, but likewise very much doubt they will be as good as the Sierra Gamechangers

I've not found anything that comes close to the gamechangers. I've tried a number of lead free alternatives between 6mm and 6.5mm and yet to come up with the ideal bullet. Some work close in, some work real well far out but are unsurprisingly extremely exposive. Some just won't shoot through my rifles no matter how hard I try (I try and save the tears when youve gone through a box of 50 to the tune of £60 and can't find a load that is acceptable).

The gamechangers at close range or far just work and work real well. If someone can suggest a bullet that will do as they do, ill buy them tomorrow

 

[Tim.243]

Been an archery instructor for 10 years now.

Love practicing and can definitely hit a 4"target at 50m and very likely at 100y. I've shot broadhead armour /piercing historic arrowheads
I've also done a field archery course where you shoot animal targets in a wood

Never once have I considered actually hunting with a bow it is just far too variable and falls the wrong side of a safety net for being humane and quick with a margin over and above killing power

 

[weblyish]

Hello weblyish, - well we can hunt certain game animals with them here in Denmark, but like with rifles there are tests to pass, pounds of pull to be met and distances to be respected with bows too, if you want to do it legally and ethically. I do wonder why cross bows are still illegal to hunt with here, since bows are not. If anything they should be easier to train and hunt with.

I can't work out why but bow hunting just feels very wrong to me

I've watched too many videos of Americans shooting at huge stags and seeing them run a very long way

Like stalking, if you know your limits and stay withing them it's fine

 

[MarinePMI]

I can't work out why but bow hunting just feels very wrong to me

I've watched too many videos of Americans shooting at huge stags and seeing them run a very long way

Like stalking, if you know your limits and stay withing them it's fine

As a former US bowhunter, I think you have been given the wrong impression. Most bowhunters here practice the same ethical principles you stated; know your limits and stay within them.

While some do bow hunt out west (where ranges are much longer) the vast majority of bowhunters in the US are in the eastern states, where a "long" shot is 40yds. And with today's bows, arrows and sights, that is an easy distance to easily keep arrows within the diameter of a milk jug cap (obviously with practice).

This being said, there are always that small percentage that portray poor hunting discipline and paint the rest of the hunting community as one and the same. I'd wager it happens in your country as well, though probably not as widely visible on social media, since your society tends to frown on that sort of thing.

 

[Smellydog]

I would take up hunting with archery gear tomorrow if I could.
Untill you've tried it don't knock it!

 

[Danny Fireblade]

I’ve taken pig with a crossbow before. This was also out in the states, the bolt went clean through the pig, which was about 80lb, and I’ve also seen what a well placed arrow from a bow will do.
If the hunter is trained and competent then it is as efficient as a rifle.

 

[Julian S]

Absolutely, did a lot of bowhunting in Canada and loved it, you have to limit your range appropriately, but seeing the deer's nose glistening at 20 yards was amazing. More satisfying than rifle hunting.

 

[Scipio]

Absolutely, did a lot of bowhunting in Canada and loved it, you have to limit your range appropriately, but seeing the deer's nose glistening at 20 yards was amazing. More satisfying than rifle hunting.

I cant imagine that it indeed is. This is also why i find the concept of iron sight rifle hunting alluring, as i wonder if it can not provide a somewhat similar intense sensation to the hunter, as bow hunting does.