Failure to renew???

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shortshot

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Thank you for contacting the Devon & Cornwall Police Firearms Licensing Department.
Before we respond, please check the FAQs page on our website. If your query is answered there, we will not reply to your email.
Certificate Expiry
Devon & Cornwall Police operate a zero-tolerance policy regarding possession of firearms after a certificate has expired. If your certificate is due to expire—either on the original date or an authorised 8-week extension—you must lodge your firearms and notify the Firearms Licensing Unit before the expiry date. Possessing firearms after your certificate has expired is an offence under Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968. This may result in prosecution and will affect future applications.
Grant and Renewal Applications
We recommend starting your application as soon as possible and ensuring you are aware of your certificate expiry date. Please note that we accept renewal applications up to 4 months before your certificate expires. For both grant and renewal applications, please ensure your GP report is fully completed, covers the last 10 years, and has either been uploaded with your application or sent directly to us by your GP. Incomplete reports may delay or invalidate your application.
Our service level agreement for processing applications (both grants and renewals) is 112 days, although time frames may vary depending on information received during the process. Please only contact us for an update if 100 days have passed since your application was submitted.
Link to Online Application.
All Other Services Such as, Changes to your Certificates or Personal Details:
For changes of address, cancellations, firearm/shotgun transfers, lost or stolen certificates, amendments to existing certificates, or variation requests, please use the relevant forms in the Applications and Contact Us section of our website. These notifications cannot be accepted by phone.
Possible Delays
Whilst delays are possible, in most cases this is due to the requirement for further enquiries. These delays can be kept to a minimum by applicants responding to contact from FELU and providing any additional information that has been requested in a timely manner. Please be aware in some circumstances we will reject an application if we have not received this further information within 14 days of the request.


Seems reasonable until. . . . . You have applied and followed precisely their timescales. The day before your temporary extension runs out, they ring you and tell you that you need to lodge firearms at RFD.
You say that they need to issue sect 7 extension. They reply we don’t do those anymore. What would you do in this scenario?Asking for a friend?
 
shortshot said:
Thank you for contacting the Devon & Cornwall Police Firearms Licensing Department.
Before we respond, please check the FAQs page on our website. If your query is answered there, we will not reply to your email.
Certificate Expiry
Devon & Cornwall Police operate a zero-tolerance policy regarding possession of firearms after a certificate has expired. If your certificate is due to expire—either on the original date or an authorised 8-week extension—you must lodge your firearms and notify the Firearms Licensing Unit before the expiry date. Possessing firearms after your certificate has expired is an offence under Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968. This may result in prosecution and will affect future applications.
Grant and Renewal Applications
We recommend starting your application as soon as possible and ensuring you are aware of your certificate expiry date. Please note that we accept renewal applications up to 4 months before your certificate expires. For both grant and renewal applications, please ensure your GP report is fully completed, covers the last 10 years, and has either been uploaded with your application or sent directly to us by your GP. Incomplete reports may delay or invalidate your application.
Our service level agreement for processing applications (both grants and renewals) is 112 days, although time frames may vary depending on information received during the process. Please only contact us for an update if 100 days have passed since your application was submitted.
Link to Online Application.
All Other Services Such as, Changes to your Certificates or Personal Details:
For changes of address, cancellations, firearm/shotgun transfers, lost or stolen certificates, amendments to existing certificates, or variation requests, please use the relevant forms in the Applications and Contact Us section of our website. These notifications cannot be accepted by phone.
Possible Delays
Whilst delays are possible, in most cases this is due to the requirement for further enquiries. These delays can be kept to a minimum by applicants responding to contact from FELU and providing any additional information that has been requested in a timely manner. Please be aware in some circumstances we will reject an application if we have not received this further information within 14 days of the request.


Seems reasonable until. . . . . You have applied and followed precisely their timescales. The day before your temporary extension runs out, they ring you and tell you that you need to lodge firearms at RFD.
You say that they need to issue sect 7 extension. They reply we don’t do those anymore. What would you do in this scenario?Asking for a friend?
Click to expand...
They dont have a choice. They may not want to issue a s7 as its pretty much the same admin as full renewal but the firearms act is what they have to follow. Put your big boy pants on, be polite and factual and MAKE them do their job. If they cant do it within the prescribed time frames then they should pay your costs or issue the s7.
 
You could also note to them that their service level agreement says within 112 days, so 16 weeks.

If you’ve applied at c4 months before your expiry and you’ve got the 8 week extension (which I believe is now automatic) then they’d be some way outside 112 days if your tickets were expiring before they had renewed.
 
Tell them you are now breaking the law as are they. Theyare art and part with your offence. Only reason you are in breach is them. Go speak with your lawyer. They have committed a criminal offence.

Explained to me by constable in Police Scotland so not internet bs. PS have a catch all on their system for this very reason
 
Your first mistake was not asking them politely in writing whether they were still on track with your renewal & that you presume they have all they need from you when your old certificate expired.

Depending on response I’d check again at 4 weeks before extension runs out. At the same time I’d have contacted BASC or your equivelant & ask them to get involved.

From that point onwards I’d have been asking BASC or whoever you're using to chivvy them along.

As for want to do now, get a quote from your local RFD (or the nearest one who has space) for storage on a per firearm per week basis & send it either to your BASC or whoever asking them to forward to the FLD pointing out that you submitted well in advance, that they have taken ‘x’ weeks including the statutory 8 week extension, that they have not requested any information you had not originally provided & that it is their failure to process your renewal which has resulted in the situation & could they please confirm who you should claim your costs back from for storage plus mileage for the two trips to & from the RFD.

If you’re not a member of BASC or other organisation then send the above yourself. Send a copy to the PCC at the same time & also to the professional standards dept if you really want to stand in the cats tail!!
 
1. Lodge them with a friendly RFD
2. Contact BASC if you are a member
3. Get on the blower to them and follow up in writing asking for a clear reason why they have failed to issue the ticket in time

j
 
Pretty sure the wording was exactly the same on my letter from North Wales Police, @Apthorpe
When the FEO called me to arrange suitable time for a visit he was also at pains to point out that we didn’t have to worry if our (mine and wife's) certificates expired before the new ones arrived, because we had automatic extensions.
As it happens, we both got our new certificates well before the expiry of the old ones.

I have always said that a renewal should be a mere formality, and I have always found it so: A simple case of filling in a form, paying a relatively modest fee, having a brief chat with a good-natured officer, and lo and behold a shiny new certificate appears forthwith.
Never had any issues with it.
 
I’ve never had any issues with renewals or any other part of the licensing process other than how clunky and time consuming it is when you want to replace a 1 for 1 item.

However would a cynical person think that they might start rejecting applications / renewals rather than go over the time threshold
 
Well I have had sgc continuously for over 50 years and fac for over 30 years and never a problem.
Then out of blue at renewal day there is a problem so you lodge your guns or you dispute /argue and say you can’t do that and encounter paragraph 1. of original post and risk an upsetting ARV raid and revocation tomorrow.
This is a true life current actual scenario. I raised it here to ask yourselves how you would react on the day.
No revocation just a suitability review at renewal but only informed subsequently.
 
shortshot said:
Well I have had sgc continuously for over 50 years and fac for over 30 years and never a problem.
Then out of blue at renewal day there is a problem so you lodge your guns or you dispute /argue and say you can’t do that and encounter paragraph 1. of original post and risk an upsetting ARV raid and revocation tomorrow.
This is a true life current actual scenario. I raised it here to ask yourselves how you would react on the day.
No revocation just a suitability review at renewal but only informed subsequently.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it would be unreasonable to take a few days to lodge with a rfd. Most aren’t open 7 days a week. So if told the day before expiry that they won’t be renewing (having met all timescales yourself ) it is most likely you will be in breach.
It would be upsetting but interesting to know the outcome of letting it lapse for a day or two.
 
It’s really not acceptable - this is extremely poor service and as always the costs only go one way - and that’s up.

Why should law abiding certificate holders have to cover the costs for storing firearms when it’s completely outwith their control? The costs should be burdened by the police as an incentive for them to do a better job.
 
Having dealt a little with legalities in a previous life, any judge or magistrate is likely to look at what is reasonable, should it get to court.

If, as a responsible licence holder, you had been in regular contact (at least weekly) with your FLD, voicing your concerns and pointing out you would hold them responsible for any charges incurred, plus any reasonable loss of use compensation should you have to lodge your firearms with an RFD, should they not extend or complete your grant on time, it would likely go in your favour.

Leaving it until the day before you license or extension lapses, and then contacting your FLD, is likely to been seen as unreasonable.
 
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