Fallow doe freemartin?

[User100]

I had an unusual fallow doe today.

She was a good size and looked like a good maternal type. But on inspection, her vulva was very far forward, almost where the penis would be. Urine leaking out with every movement of the carcass. Not pregnant, not in milk & mature.

It made me think of freemartins in cattle, when mixed-sex twins share hormones in the uterus and the female doesn't develop normally.

Has anyone else seen this sort of unusual anatomy?

 

[Jon P]

Did around 10 yrs ago- only once, did take photos will have to try and find them.

 

[User100]

Did around 10 yrs ago- only once, did take photos will have to try and find them.

Interesting.
(I never thought to take a photo )

The other thing was that, I guess from never having bred, the fat inside was... prodigious. (Made me feel for abdominal surgeons having to work on obese people - how do they find the right organ!)

 

[Acm]

I had an unusual fallow doe today.

She was a good size and looked like a good maternal type. But on inspection, her vulva was very far forward, almost where the penis would be. Urine leaking out with every movement of the carcass. Not pregnant, not in milk & mature.

It made me think of freemartins in cattle, when mixed-sex twins share hormones in the uterus and the female doesn't develop normally.

Has anyone else seen this sort of unusual anatomy?

I could very well be wrong but this sounds more like a hermaphrodite than a free martin to me, freemartins generally look fairly normal from the outside but it’s the internal sex organs that are not formed properly.
I’ve not seen it in fallow, but have seen both of the above in cattle and sheep. Hermaphrodites you can spot (and smell!) from a mile off, freemartins tend to need an internal scan or inspection.

 

[Acm]

@Buchan can probably shed some light on it.

 

[User100]

I hadn't thought of hermaphrodite and haven't encountered it in sheep or cattle. The doe had a normal uterus but I didn't think to look for ovaries. The vulva was bigger and more open than normal, with a small bit of a tuft.

We had a freemartin heifer once - when she peed it came out like a 2m jet!

 

[Buchan]

I could very well be wrong but this sounds more like a hermaphrodite than a free martin to me, freemartins generally look fairly normal from the outside but it’s the internal sex organs that are not formed properly.
I’ve not seen it in fallow, but have seen both of the above in cattle and sheep. Hermaphrodites you can spot (and smell!) from a mile off, freemartins tend to need an internal scan or inspection.

I'd agree, intersex/hermaphrodite or some abnormality in development. Freemartin is where the male and female have a shared placental circulation and the male hormones develop earlier and suppress the female development. The hormones don't cross into the dam, so the separate embryonic sacs for deer twins avoids this problem.

I had to look this up to be sure!!

 

[User100]

I'd agree, intersex/hermaphrodite or some abnormality in development. Freemartin is where the male and female have a shared placental circulation and the male hormones develop earlier and suppress the female development. The hormones don't cross into the dam, so the separate embryonic sacs for deer twins avoids this problem.

I had to look this up to be sure!!

Ah - interesting. Thanks for looking into that.

And with only one other similar SD encounter by @Jon P some years ago, it definitely seems quite rare.

 

[Jon P]

Ah - interesting. Thanks for looking into that.

And with only one other similar SD encounter by @Jon P some years ago, it definitely seems quite rare.

Mine was slightly different, still looking for the photos, thinking back it was more like 14 yrs ago as I had just taken that big of ground on. the one I had, had a Vulva but also had a small penis around where the udder would of been, I had an old Nokia phone then so only hope of finding photos will be on a old laptop.

 

[User100]

Crikey- yours was a lot freakier than mine then!