Feeling a bit bemused - Guided stalk

[MarkA]

I'm just after people thoughts on this as I have little experience to compare.

I'm new to stalking and have been out 4 times this year. The first three trips where in Scotland whilst visiting family on a couple of occasions and were very enjoyable, Unfortunately the forth outing, back in England turned out to be not so enjoyable!

As I want to build knowledge and experience and can't keep going up to Scotland, I thought the best way to go was to book some guided stalking with a 'professional' to continue learning. Like most things in life, you normally need lessons/coaching/mentoring to become proficient, safe etc etc and stalking is certainly very true of this in my opinion.

Anyway, to cut a long storey short, I was relieved £300 for an outing that lasted less than two hours. Yes, we were successful, but this was a cull animal (and a poor one at that) as I had already said I was not interested in trophy stalking on booking.

The break down of my invoice was - £130 outing fee
£120 success fee - not disclosed at the time for a cull animal
£50 fee for the use of a rifle and ammunition - not disclosed

All in all it has not done much to encourage me. If this is the normal going rate then I'll just take it on the chin and have to except I can't really afford to take up stalking as I certainly can't pay £300 every outing to build up experience. Maybe it was naive of me to not fully understand about 'hidden extras', but said stalker was aware I was a novice and I would have thought he might have made me aware?

If this is all totally normal then I apologise, but would just like to know.

Mark

 

[palmer_mike]

Always best to be aware of the potential costs of a stalking outing up front!
As a novice you may not have been aware of the questions that needed asking in order for you to know the costs. On the other hand the figures you quote do seem steep for a cull animal (I hesitate to say you've been ripped off but I'm sure you'll bottom out all the fees before booking another outing). You can find reliable stalking providers in your area much more competitively priced!!

 

[Pine Marten]

Hello Mark.

This is a topic that comes up once in a while on here but the key thing is to make sure the pricing architecture is clear beforehand. The outing fee is pretty reasonable at £130. £120 kill fee for a cull animal is a bit steep. The key thing here is that the largest part of the price wasn't made clear up front, which isn't really on. For what it's worth, SikaMalc on here, if he has any availability left, will take you out culling fallow and roe does in the winter for £150 for two outings, no kill fees, no hidden extras, and you can buy the venison if you like. But that's really all that it costs. I would say that I've found that booking a long time in advance helps. Typically I find myself with a system of rolling bookings made about six months in advance. It's a bit like aeroplane tickets, the last minute ones are more expensive. Unless you're in standby but then you need flexibility.

 

[Markfox]

What was the cull animal you shot muntjac , roe / fallow buck ?

Id expect a cull animal / buck this time of year to be about £160 ish all in per outing and rising accordingly if medal quality

If it were doe season between £90-£120 all in per outing (some do good winter cull deals)
I.e 6 outing £500 all in etc

Using the guides rifle doesn't normally carry a cost other than at most £2-£3 per fired round used

all give or take depending


an outing is usually 4 hours but just depends


you could name and shame to stop people being ripped off

 

[nun_hunter]

I didn't think it was allowed to "rent" a rifle or charge for ammo?

 

[SimpleSimon]

I didn't think it was allowed to "rent" a rifle or charge for ammo?

I think technically it is illegal, but as with most aspects of.firearms law it's unclear. Is he renting the rifle, or is he paying the guide eextra to "supervise" his borrowing of a rifle"

 

[Pine Marten]

Is he renting the rifle, or is he paying the guide eextra to "supervise" his borrowing of a rifle"

I think it's a consultancy fee...

 

[JasonH]

Let's not beat around the bush for a cull animal you were had way too expensive and the non disclosure of the additional fees upfront was unacceptable if this was the case. But this happens in all aspects of life for instance I was recently had by Avis on a car rental which went from $300 at the point of booking to $900 at the end when all hidden costs were disclosed. Take it as a learning point your now way more informed for when it comes to booking your next stalk and the questions to ask when you verbalize the contract.

 

[Lloyd90]

BIG THING - Did YOU ASK for the prices and what was included before going ? I kept asking people I was looking to book with for any cull fees, antler fees etc etc

Some wanted £100 to go out, but £10 for every CM of antler and other prices or conditions like this. I found a guy who would take me out on 2 stalks (morning/evening) for a cull animal no extra costs unless you want the meet. The night before going we had those bloody thunder storms, so instead we went out in the evening that day after they shifted, and planned to go out the following morning.

Saw plenty of deer (But just not the Roe buck I was after) and almost has a shot on a muntie but he disappeared very last minute. The next morning it was torrential rain and we didn't head out, invited me back up for a free day to make up for it. Hopefully be going out in the next two weeks and If I get something I will be very happy.

 

[caz518]

I wouldn't say that £130 outing fee for less than 2 hours is anywhere near reasonable ......

 

[Lloyd90]

I wouldn't say that £130 outing fee for less than 2 hours is anywhere near reasonable ......

I wouldn't say it's too bad considering you actually see deer, there aren't any other fee's (Since he only wanted a cull buck) and none of this hidden extra ********!

If I had asked up front the "guide" sprung these hidden charges on me after I'd already arranged the price I would not have been happy to pay and would have refused!
If you did ask for FULL prices and they slipped these on I would go so far as to say you've been had and the bloke isn't a guide but a bloody con artist!

 

[bogtrotter]

Rather expensive, and yes it is illegal to charge for the use of a rifle but strangely enough not the ammunition,however many stalkers while not directly charging for the use of their rifle will have allowed something to cover the use of their rifle if needed in their overall charges, can you really blame them, I know from experience that some clients are not the most careful with a rifle not belonging to them.

£50 for a couple of hours , it wouldn't matter how careless they were I would have been able to buy a new rifle at the end of the week.

Seriously though on the last estate I was employed on ,I was paid £15 per day for use of my rifle
this was paid by my employer not the client.

As has been said before ask for a full list of prices before confirming booking, then you know exactly where you stand.

 

[JTO]

Though this doesn't appear to be the case, I think people might be willing to pay these sort of fees so that they can justify keeping a weapon and/or FAC. As long as there are people willing to pay, there will be people willing to charge accordingly.

 

[caz518]

I wouldn't say it's too bad considering you actually see deer, there aren't any other fee's (Since he only wanted a cull buck) and none of this hidden extra ********!

If I had asked up front the "guide" sprung these hidden charges on me after I'd already arranged the price I would not have been happy to pay and would have refused!
If you did ask for FULL prices and they slipped these on I would go so far as to say you've been had and the bloke isn't a guide but a bloody con artist!

Yes I get your point although if I only want to see dear I'd go to Richmond Park for less that £130 and could spend all day there

Seriously though the other hidden charges (if that's what they were) are a joke and clearly someone trying to rip off a newcomer to the sport. I have heard of a few stories like this happen to people.
I was lucky that when I started stalking I happen to meet some very genuine people / pro stalkers from this site who helped me out a lot.

 

[weeman]

You were over charged for the stalk. Fact!!!
You were seemingly over charged for the cull animal presuming it was a buck or muntjac?
You were over charged for the rifle. Fact.
There should be no hidden extras. Every stalker should be able to offer a full clear factual contract. This may be a full contract in your eyes but missing important pieces knowing that they can take advantage. They also know that new comers will be desperately seeking to cull there first deers.

Sxxt happens. I very nearly got robbed on my first stalked thankfully foot and mouth outbreak stopped it.

Some I wouldn't call them guides or stalkers more like scum do take advantage of newcomers. Why because they can and are greedy.
And can see it from a mile away by the conversation.

My bug berer on here is stalkers not putting prices on there adds when theoretically they should because they are selling something hence why they take out trade membership. I know once when a stalker gave two different prices varying their experiences.
Mates rates are different to experience.

 

[highseat6.5]

So the cost breaks down to £130 to look at deer but if you want to shoot one its £250 ...and shoot it with his rifle it's £300 !! God forbid what it would cost if it had any sort of head ...you have with out a doubt had your testicles squeezed ...

 

[Selous]

Perhaps the question to ask is what will it cost me in total if i shoot a deer? Also bear in mind that doe stalking is generally cheaper. Vote with your feet if you are not happy!!

 

[limulus]

I understand what you're saying about voting with your feet but when it's after the event it's yet another newcomer shafted by some unscrupulous count.

 

[Cloudhopper]

MarkA,

If you want some decent stalking with tuition join BASC and book some stalking with Des in Thetford. It's about £115 for the first outing and £100 for subsequent outings booked at the same time. These costs are all inclusive (i.e. no trophy fees) They have an estate rifle. Each outing lasts for about 3 hrs and it's very relaxed and well organised.
CH

 

[pete evans]

If you hide costs because you suspect that a client would not book if they were aware of the final cost then it is a little immoral. Whenever a thread like this comes up the suggestion seems to be that the client is being naive by not asking for a price for every aspect of the day. I feel that a guide has a duty to mention that additional costs may be incurred and how much they might be and for what, if the price is acceptable to the clieat then the stalk will go ahead and everybody will be happy. It would be a shame if someones memory of a successful hunt was the feeling that they had been rinsed.