Fenn Traps Question

[shakey jake]

you can legally use them for rats and squirrels, check them daily, you need to set in a tunnel with restricted access, you could set in a dead end tunnel with maize behind the trap. carry out an environmental risk assesment before hand and good luck

 

[Dan Newcombe]

You can - but if you catch a stoat, it’s illegal

 

[Roestalker39]

You can - but if you catch a stoat, it’s illegal

You just don’t stop do you ?

 

[Mick9abf]

You just don’t stop do you ?

There’s a good reason that no sporting estates or gamekeepers I know are using them anymore, while you may disagree with what Dan Newcombe is saying he is rightly highlighting that we are in a position now where if you are found to have trapped a stoat you could become the first stated case for a wildlife crime which incidentally usually coincides with the revocation of firearms certificates.

Of course the only crime is getting caught and if it’s in the OP’s own garden then that is up to him. However, in the current climate with various groups constantly looking to attack or target lethal forms of species/land management, use vicarious liability etc to pursue their own agenda I would suggest that caution and mitigation of risk is the best course of action.

 

[Roestalker39]

There’s a good reason that no sporting estates or gamekeepers I know are using them anymore, while you may disagree with what Dan Newcombe is saying he is rightly highlighting that we are in a position now where if you are found to have trapped a stoat you could become the first stated case for a wildlife crime which incidentally usually coincides with the revocation of firearms certificates.

Of course the only crime is getting caught and if it’s in the OP’s own garden then that is up to him. However, in the current climate with various groups constantly looking to attack or target lethal forms of species/land management, use vicarious liability etc to pursue their own agenda I would suggest that caution and mitigation of risk is the best course of action.

Plenty I know still are lots of squirrel tunnels with fenn traps in them

 

[Mick9abf]

Plenty I know still are lots of squirrel tunnels with fenn traps in them

Where are the squirrel tunnels located.

 

[Roestalker39]

Where are the squirrel tunnels located.

In the woods

 

[Mick9abf]

In the woods

Just the sort of answer I’d expect....... If the OP wants to use “Roestalker39 of the SD massive said it would be ok” as a defence good luck to him.

A member has highlighted the risks of accidentally trapping a species illegally by a the use of a specific type of trap which has been well documented on the SGA/BASC etc website and all you want to do is be argumentative.

I had this discussion with the head keeper of driven grouse moor just last week and we both agreed this is exactly the attitude that will see the end of some forms of species management.

 

[Roestalker39]

Just the sort of answer I’d expect....... If the OP wants to use “Roestalker39 of the SD massive said it would be ok” as a defence good luck to him.

A member has highlighted the risks of accidentally trapping a species illegally by a the use of a specific type of trap which has been well documented on the SGA/BASC etc website and all you want to do is be argumentative.

I had this discussion with the head keeper of driven grouse moor just last week and we both agreed this is exactly the attitude that will see the end of some forms of species management.

I’d be happy for them to cupcake Basc man by any chance ?

 

[Mick9abf]

I’d be happy for them to cupcake Basc man by any chance ?

Not at all which would be quite obvious if you read some of my previous posts on those types of threads.

However traps are a very hot topic just now, particularly in Scotland after last weeks changes to legislation and certain groups actively pursuing evidence to secure convictions it would be stupid to go down the line of “it’ll be ok”. Several traps have been stolen or tampered with on sporting estates recently by unknown persons but you can draw your own conclusions.

To bury your head in the sand or just be an arse about it isn’t the answer. While I agree with some of your other posts on the forum to a point you appear to be the sort of person who just can’t be wrong so I’ll leave it there princess.

 

[bogtrotter]

Still quite a few places using Fenns using 25mm weldmesh to restrict access to stoats why because there is a delay in getting the new traps many of them have been on.order for months due to Covid they are still sitting in China

The using of Fenns is not illegal the catching of stoats is!

 

[Mick9abf]

Still quite a few places using Fenns using 25mm weldmesh to restrict access to stoats why because there is a delay in getting the new traps many of them have been on.order for months due to Covid they are still sitting in China

The using of Fenns is not illegal the catching of stoats is!

That’s interesting as I know of two estates that were told categorically not to use them anymore even though full orders hadn’t arrived. Maybe some owners are more worried about vicarious liability than others.

 

[Roestalker39]

Still quite a few places using Fenns using 25mm weldmesh to restrict access to stoats why because there is a delay in getting the new traps many of them have been on.order for months due to Covid they are still sitting in China

The using of Fenns is not illegal the catching of stoats is!

No no no you’ve got it all wrong apparently

 

[Mick9abf]

No no no you’ve got it all wrong apparently

The whole point has gone completely over your head hasn’t it.

 

[countrryboy]

Must admit I just bought a load cheap off an estate, purely for rats on my own property
Were selling like hot cakes to pest controllers from down south buying hundreds at a time, but purely for rat control or possibly squirrels different story if trap elevated..

While the law is the same for everyone, but no one is going to be checking traps round a private chicken pen, no political gains to be made.
Very different story on a sporting estate where randoms will be checking/damaging traps and esp with highly visible rail traps wouldn't surprise me if tampered with and already dead stoats end up in them just for the PR


Ps
Is it not a srrange law, were banned from using them despite traps being checked every 24hrs ( and I've never heard of a live stoat being found in 1) but when u watch those Alaskan programmes with boys trapping fur still using them yet only checking trap lines every few days if that. And still using foot hold traps for bigger mammals to hold them till they freeze to death.

 

[Roestalker39]

The whole point has gone completely over your head hasn’t it.

No not at all but the point that complete capitulation is not the answer has gone over yours hasn’t it ?

 

[Mick9abf]

No not at all but the point that complete capitulation is not the answer has gone over yours hasn’t it ?

I suppose it depends on what you have or are willing to lose if you are the unfortunate person caught out.

Unfortunately anyone who falls foul of this b*ll**** piece of legislation creates the first conviction which is all these people need.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Wow - this really got out of hand quickly.

Essentially there are two options here either do it or don’t - judge each on their merit.

Out of interest Roestalker, if the question had been ‘am I allowed to get blind drunk and drive home?’ would your advice be, no because it’s illegal or would you say ‘absolutely fine because I know someone who does it and what’s the likelihood of being caught - anyone who says otherwise is a complete idiot and we shouldn’t be letting anyone tell us what to do’?

Annoyingly, the AIHTS is a European fur trapping legislation so our use is an unintended consequence. The requirement is for the target animal to die in (I think) 90 seconds or less and fenns don’t always do that according to the scientists. When you see one of the new options actually go off - the difference is quite clear.

To clarify - you can use fenns for rats and squirrels perfectly legally but you are running a risk of you catch a stoat (and are caught).

 

[bogtrotter]

Wow - this really got out of hand quickly.

Essentially there are two options here either do it or don’t - judge each on their merit.

Out of interest Roestalker, if the question had been ‘am I allowed to get blind drunk and drive home?’ would your advice be, no because it’s illegal or would you say ‘absolutely fine because I know someone who does it and what’s the likelihood of being caught - anyone who says otherwise is a complete idiot and we shouldn’t be letting anyone tell us what to do’?

Annoyingly, the AIHTS is a European fur trapping legislation so our use is an unintended consequence. The requirement is for the target animal to die in (I think) 90 seconds or less and fenns don’t always do that according to the scientists. When you see one of the new options actually go off - the difference is quite clear.

To clarify - you can use fenns for rats and squirrels perfectly legally but you are running a risk of you catch a stoat (and are caught).

Exactly this but 25mm weldmesh prevents a stoat from entering unfortunatley it prevents a lot of other things from
entering also.
There is also the possibility of a particularly slim ( young) entering or as county sags you could easily fall foul of
someone planting a stoat in one.
While 25 weldmesh will permit weasels to enter which is legal and prevent stoats but I would question the point of
killing weasels and leaving stoats while both will kill game the stoat is more of a problem and also.more prolific than
the weasel.
Though as I said already I know of a few estates that have adapted their tunnel and rail traps to allow the legal use of
Fenns not that they particularly want to but because the late delivery of the new traps .
Know of one estate that had a large order about three hundred only about a third of which have arrived the order waso
placed around six months ago.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

But a stoat is a stoat - that’s the basic premise so if you catch a little / young one. That’s still illegal.

People will do and will be fine but I would never advise anyone to take that route.