Firearms Enquiry Officer - I totally despair of some.

[Oracle]

Never really had problems (so far) but live in the first county to say no med cert no fac.
I am very tempted to require the feo and the CC to produce their med cert/ qual to say they they are competent to judge whether I am fit or not.

I am quite sure that, with regard to any medical disclosures that gave cause for concern regarding your “fitness to be entrusted”, they would seek the opinion/recommendations of the Force Medical Officer and be guided by the findings.

 

[sikamalc]

I live in Kent but come under the Met , and have found my FEO approachable and very knowledgeable and have had no problems at all , there are some very good guys , (and his boss a lady doing the job) no complaints here

It was a lady Firearms Manager at Kent for many years, who retired a few years back. She was then replaced by another lady, who appears to have not lasted very long. The Manager is now a man whos name escapes me for the moment. Again I can only repeat that Kent constabulary have in most instances been a sensible and professional Firearms Dept, in my opinion.
I have also dealt with the Met on numerous occasions regarding applicants and renewals for clients and have again always found the FEO's to be polite and sensible.

 

[Cranhill]

Interesting point here:

1. The CCs do often apply the guidance in their own way, but they are also involved in the writing of the Guide at the HO level.

2. A 'level playing field' is less-important than fair administration case by case. The former is often seen as requiring even more law/guidelines - which is always going to be an opportunity for the Police and HO to make things the same across the country, but worse than they are now. What is needed is well-informed and assertive applicants, who know how to handle the relevant police departments.

3, The problem with changes in both the law and Guide is not that the people making them know nothing about firearms. I suspect that this is the same thinking that makes BASC (for example) feel flattered and important when asked to 'help the HO out', only to find when the warm glow has worn off that they've approved some completely disastrous undermining of 100years of established equitable practice which favoured both fairness, antidiscrimination, and the spirit of the Act.

The problem is emphatically not the the civil servants don't know anything about firearms. The problem is completely the opposite: they know exactly what they're doing, and why, and they know how and when to advance their agenda. We, and our organisations, need to recognise this and act accordingly; by which I mean largely as individual shooters keeping our MPs on side: not necessarily on the side of shooting, but on the side of the spirit of the Firearms Act and of the fundamental freedoms which it protects.

Just as a complement to your post and my thoughts only but, it appears since the 1918 Blackwell report which lead to the first principal change into the firearms ownership.

The report by the Blackwell committee (1920) following the 1916 Easter uprising and Russia revolution in 1917, which lead to the 1920 firearms act and subsequent acts.

Since the 1920 act, the government (both left and right wing), the civil service and the police have profound embedded policy of non-civilian ownership of firearms.

As for the HO guidance and FAC conditions are not statuary acts and can be challenged in the court but without a robust forcefully lobbying groups as in USA / France, which we in UK sadly lacking plus the high costs challenging in court, there is always be an ongoing need to contesting all and every obstacle raise by FEO’s, Firearms departments, Chief Constables and HO.

 

[Deeryme]

My mate is going through the renewal process for his FAC and SGC and has just been visited by a FEO from Gloucestershire. He's just phoned me to tell me that the FEO is insistent that all expanding bullet are to go back on section 5 in the near future, because allegedly shooters are stock piling them and passing expanding missiles onto criminals. She also told him that the maximum amount of propellant that he could hold was 9KG.

Where the hell do they find some of these people. What a total load of cobblers. How on earth can the force let loose someone who is in daily contact with the shooting public to spread such misinformation and crap. The law regarding expanding missiles was corrected what four or five years ago now. Are they likely to change it back again to the way it was when the Home Office originally cocked up the legislation in 1988, I don't think so.

I'm now just trying to figure out where the figure of 9Kg comes from as I can't recall hearing that particular figure mentioned previously. Yes I'm familiar with the figure 5kg and even 15kg has been mentioned in certain context ,but where does 9Kg come from? Never mind the absolute bollocks about the bullets.

Praise the gods of hunting that I don't come under Gloucestershire.

I too have just had visit from firearms team for my renewal. He now says that he wants to remove my authority to shoot Muntjac and CWD in England with my 22-250. He also wants to remove my authority to shoot Roe in Scotland with my .22-250 saying it is NOT LEGAL. It has been on a number of certificates and I have never heard of any changes in the law. The British Deer Society have confirmed that NO laws have changed and I can still use the 22-250. Every web site I've checked show that I am legal. This is Northumbria Police !! Oh Deer ,Two numbers were incorrect. I have now corrected the calibre. Deeryme.

 

[Deeryme]

I too have just had visit from firearms team for my renewal. He now says that he wants to remove my authority to shoot Muntjac and CWD in England with my 22-250. He also wants to remove my authority to shoot Roe in Scotland with my .22-250 saying it is NOT LEGAL. It has been on a number of certificates and I have never heard of any changes in the law. The British Deer Society have confirmed that NO laws have changed and I can still use the 22-250. Every web site I've checked show that I am legal. This is Northumbria Police !! Oh Deer ,Two numbers were incorrect. I have now corrected the calibre. Deeryme.

 

[Deeryme]

I detailed the calibre wrong in line of message but have corrected it. Deeryme.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

With cut backs and Covid its not been easy for anyone renewing or getting a grant for an FAC. There are some constabularies and FEO's that apply the guidelines in a rather authoritarian way it seems. However the vast majority in my opinion are helpful and within reason are willing to grant most applications. As far as Kent constabulary is concerned I have little to complain about. My own FEO I have known for many years and have a good working relationship with him.
Maintaining a good relationship by being polite and if you are correct firm in your approach helps, if you are going to start raising your voice and telling them how to do their job you will find the wait a lot longer.

I tent to agree with that.
Police Scotland have caused me zero issues over many years of grants and variations.

 

[mealiejimmy]

I detailed the calibre wrong in line of message but have corrected it. Deeryme.

You might want to tell the FEO that the law on shooting roe deer in Scotland is different than in England and Wales
To shoot roe deer in Scotland, the bullet must be of an expanding type which must deform in a predictable manner and also meet the 3 following conditions:
1. Weigh at least 50 grains
2. Have a muzzle velocity of at least 2450 ft/second
3. Have a muzzle energy of at least 1000ftlbs
Any rifle which can cope with a 50 grain or heavier bullet and make it leave the rifle with a muzzle velocity and muzzle energy meeting requirements 2 and 3 above is legal.
In practice, 222rem is generally regarded as the minimum calibre capable of doing this but it could be done with a 204 ruger if you could find 50 grain bullets and had a barrel that would stabilise them.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Sonicdmb73]

You might want to tell the FEO that the law on shooting roe deer in Scotland is different than in England and Wales
To shoot roe deer in Scotland, the bullet must be of an expanding type which must deform in a predictable manner and also meet the 3 following conditions:
1. Weigh at least 50 grains
2. Have a muzzle velocity of at least 2450 ft/second
3. Have a muzzle energy of at least 1000ftlbs
Any rifle which can cope with a 50 grain or heavier bullet and make it leave the rifle with a muzzle velocity and muzzle energy meeting requirements 2 and 3 above is legal.
In practice, 222rem is generally regarded as the minimum calibre capable of doing this but it could be done with a 204 ruger if you could find 50 grain bullets and had a barrel that would stabilise them.

Cheers

Bruce

My 20 Tac will fire a 50 grain bullet plenty fast enough. The only question I would have is whether it is “designed to expand in a predictable manner

 

[mealiejimmy]

What bullet is it?
Berger do a 55gn varmint bullet that would be legal if it reaches the 2650fps muzzle velocity quoted by the manufacturer.
it does require a barrel with a 1 in 10 twist tho

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Sonicdmb73]

What bullet is it?
Berger do a 55gn varmint bullet that would be legal if it reaches the 2650fps muzzle velocity quoted by the manufacturer.
it does require a barrel with a 1 in 10 twist tho

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.

bergerbullets.com

Cheers

Bruce

Berger 50 grain now sadly not available (I have around 300 left iirc) but I believe it is a Varmint round.
I suppose it is how you (or the Courts) might interpret expand predictively. They certainly are not as explosive as the 39 blitz kings

 

[mealiejimmy]

Berger 50 grain now sadly not available (I have around 300 left iirc) but I believe it is a Varmint round.
I suppose it is how you (or the Courts) might interpret expand predictively. They certainly are not as explosive as the 39 blitz kings

I don't think the courts would have a problem with a varmint bullet not expanding predictably - I think the bigger problem is the potential mess it could make of the carcass.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I don't think the courts would have a problem with a varmint bullet not expanding predictably - I think the bigger problem is the potential mess it could make of the carcass.

Cheers

Bruce

I doubt very much I will have the opportunity to use it anyway. I am more likely to take the 6.5 anyway

 

[slider]

Just going through renewal just now and have on praise for Police Scotland. Local PC is the FEO and she knowns the locals, perhaps the most important point.
My GP practice however have been difficult over the medical form. The FEO has being very supportive of my decision to use a 3rd party GP to complete this.